Talk:Identity Crisis (DC Comics)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Amberadams, Casticastillo, Nisaa829. Peer reviewers: ShameCon, Krimashah, HyyyTyyy.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 00:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Suggestions for the article

I find that this article could use some restructuring, as well as some additional sections to add depth to it. It seems to be quite simple, and superficial. There should be more themes/ideas addressed in this article that are relevant to the comic, such as history of the justice league, what an identity crisis is, and superhero identity. I believe that there should be a section about the author, Brad Meltzer, after “Publication history,” simply giving a brief background of Meltzer. I also think that there should be a section about revenge and justice, seeing how this is a recurring theme throughout the comic. This section should also show how there is a blurred line between the two terms in general, and how it is applied in the comic itself. Another suggestion I have is to get rid of a couple sections; “Reception” and “Parody” don’t particularly pertain to what the article’s purpose is. Here are a few sources to support my suggestions for the article:

“Our Authors, Our Advocates.” American Libraries, vol. 41, no. 10, 2010, pp. 43–45. www.jstor.org/stable/25734695.

Elster, Jon. “Norms of Revenge.” Ethics, vol. 100, no. 4, 1990, pp. 862–885. www.jstor.org/stable/2381783.

Hart, H. L. A. “Justice.” Philosophy, vol. 28, no. 107, 1953, pp. 348–352. www.jstor.org/stable/3748149.

Amberadams (talk) 19:27, 18 November 2016 (UTC)

After looking at this article I can tell that it is lacking a little in the sense of explaining the actual title and meaning of what identity crisis is. I feel like it is necessary to add a section for identity crisis that explains what it really is pertaining to in the comic book and the meaning behind the title.

Dallat, C. L. “What Identity Crisis?” Fortnight, no. 442, 2006, pp. 15–17. www.jstor.org/stable/25561638.

Francis, Chris. “Identity Crisis.” RSA Journal, vol. 148, no. 5496, 2001, pp. 6–6. www.jstor.org/stable/41379031.

Piotr H. Kosicki. “Poland's Identity Crisis.” Foreign Policy, no. 140, 2004, pp. 15–15. www.jstor.org/stable/4147511.

Casticastillo (talk) 15:54, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree completely with what needs to be added to this article, especially about what an actual identity crisis is and how it pertains to the comic. I also think it is important to show the contrasting differences between revenge and justice and if this comic does show a difference in these two aspects. How does a "superhero" get through the psychological phenomenon we know as identity if they are constantly switching identities? Here are the sources I will be using.

Lacan, Jacques. “The Mirror Stage as Formative of the Function of the I as Revealed in Psychoanalytic Experience.” Ecrits, A Selection, 1949.

Derrida, Jacques. “‘Justices.’” Critical Inquiry, vol. 31, no. 3, 2005, pp. 689–721. www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/430991.

Leve, Lauren. “‘Identity.’” Current Anthropology, vol. 52, no. 4, 2011, pp. 513–535. www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/660999.

Hayes, Brian. “Computing Science: Identity Crisis.” American Scientist, vol. 86, no. 6, 1998, pp. 508–512. www.jstor.org/stable/27857126.

Rmerrill14 (talk) 04:20, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Points left open

Points left open:

DC didn't do the greatest job listing related stories and issues that were connected to Identity Crisis. It's possible they didn't think would be such a hit. As a result some of the answers came in much later comics.

1.Who was the mother of Captain Boomerang's son? This is a mystery that will likely later be a major story in The Flash

2.Why did Bolt attack the owners of Lex Luthor's body armor? Those who had the armor weren't the owners. They were some punks who stole it. Lex Luthor had Calculator hire someone to retrieve it. This turned out to be Bolt. Bolt did not die but was still in bad shape when other villians hired by Lex obtained the armor from the thugs in Teen Titans #20

3.Dr. Light's memory of what happened on the satellite were restored. He remembers everything and is supposed to be back to his once deadly self.

4.What were Dr. Moon and Phobia up to? I'm curious as to this myself. Perhaps upcoming Villains United will explain a bit more.

5.Was Jean Loring forced by Arkham inmates to reveal the identities of the DC heroes (as alluded to by a newspaper headline)? Evidence points to it being learned in other ways.

Will Batman discover the mindwipe? It seems he already may in the upcoming issue DC Countdown. Which may solve some other questions.

User:Black arrow

• Many of the comments on the Criticisms section belong here on the talk page and not in the main article-- Wilfredo Martinez.

Agreed. Also, the matter of Sue Dibny's pregnancy is not "a cheap attempt to milk emotion". It was established in other comics (Notably Super Buddies) User:pbradley179

Green Arrow and Hawkman

Green Arrow and Hawkman's mutual antagonism was no longer primarily rooted in their differing political philosophies, but instead on their opposing opinions of what should have been done to Doctor Light.

Do we know this for a fact? Just because they came on opposing sides doesnt mean the reason why clash isnt because of they're a conservative and a liberal. I dont think Light was the main reason for their antagonism. --DrBat 00:16, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

In issue #3, Green Arrows talks to Wally about the circumstances surrounding Dr. Light's personality shift (and the row Green Arrow and Hawkman had over it). From their conversation, it's pretty strongly implied that although they had differing political philosophies, Green Arrow and Hawkman tolerated each other well enough -- it was after the entire Dr. Light affair that their relationship became truly antagonistic. 216.242.182.234 22:58, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

rm non-"change" - This is as much a reflection of that difference in philosophy as a replacement for it

It is a significant change. In the original canon, the sole reason there was bad blood between Green Arrow and Hawkman was simple politics and nothing more. Now, the "real" reason for their mutual animosity is rooted in the differing opinion of what happened to Dr. Light and the minor altercation they had over it. The text even says that although they disagreed philosophically, this incident is what drove them to their historic antipathy.

Superman and Batman's Secret Identity

Although it's been mentioned that both Superman and Batman's civilian identities were revealed to the core members of the JLA after the events of "Tower of Babel", it was still a small group let in on the secret (Wally West [Flash], Kyle Rayner [Green Lantern], Daniel "Eel" O'Brian [Plastic Man]). There was never any mention or indication that the revelation went beyond that group, leading to the kind of casual familiarity that was part of the Pre-Crisis DCU.

Criticisms section

The section on criticisms of the series is becoming larger and increasingly POV. The danger of the section is that, while it should exist to record complaints gathered from external sources that represent the feelings of large numbers of people, it's very easy for anyone to just insert their own criticisms and hide it behind the veil of "Some fans believe" or "it has been argued by some". I admit that I've done it myself. It's also turning into a point-counterpoint forum for arguments, rather than an encyclopedia entry. I'm thinking about either severely cutting down the section or removing it altogether and re-adding parts on a case-by-case basis. ANyone have any thoughts? Pitr 16:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I suggest putting the criticisms back.

The problem here is that the topic is one discussed by fans, not one written about in scholarly journals. This means that the criticism is also going to be made by fans, not published in journals, and it's entirely possible for a particular criticism to be fairly well known and still not published in a scientific journal.

If there is real doubt as to whether the criticisms have been made by other people than the Wikipedia editors, would links to Usenet posts, web pages or forums, or comic book magazine articles suffice as references? (Although Usenet posts and web pages are not usually considered good sources because they're not peer-reviewed, in this case they're being used as primary sources--they *are* fan reactions, so they can be used to justify a statement about fan reactions) Ken Arromdee 18:21, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Links to forum posts and blogs and such can easily become misrepresentative, though. How can you tell from looking only at a forum post if the opinion of the poster is representative of greater opinion? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 22:32, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

If any description of fan reactions had to be supported with proof that the fan reaction is representative enough to be included, we'd never be able to include any at all. Nobody does surveys of fan reactions and publishes them in journals. Ken Arromdee 14:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

That's probably why most articles don't deal with fan reactions, just verifiable things like critical reception and sales numbers. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Even if a criticisms does not come from a scholarly source, it is easy to distinguish between actual critisums and fan based rants. However, in order to avoid some fan based put downs, we could put up an influence section and discuss the possible sources that inspired the text.

There's spoilers and then there's spoilers...

I made it a point not to read this article until after I had read "Identity Crisis," reasonably thinking I'd be safe from spoilers. However this was prior to reading most of the Infinite Crisis storyline.

My point is, I don't think this article should include plot details revealed subsequently to "Identity Crisis." Case in point:

       "Batman's eventual remembrance of the mindwipe led him to disassociate
   himself from the JLA and become increasingly suspicious of metahuman heroes
   (see Brother Eye)."

Anyway, I just wanted to get some feedback on this point before merrily deleting passages.

--Gaijinlaw 13:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Other Media

Although it came from Entertainment Weekly, I'm removing the speculation that an upcoming animated movie is based on IdC, since it seemed like EW was speculating as well. If a lot object, I'm putting it here so it can be inserted back in. --- Rogsheng 16:29, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Appearances in other media

Warner Bros. is currently developing an animated movie that is speculated to be based on the Identity Crisis storyline. The movie may launch both the potentially upcoming Green Arrow and Flash films. [1]

That's a few months old - it's actually New Frontier. --Charlesknight 20:49, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Unanswered questioned section

The fact that there are answers under some of the questions makes some of the unanswered questions ... answered. A major re-edit of this section (or deletion) would be helpful. 66.109.248.114

External links section

Anyone have any idea what the "analysis" by Scott King and the fantasybookreview review are being given such prominence> Neither source is particularly notable- it strikes me that the individual writers or their colleagues have stuck the links in for self-promotional interests. Surely the Publisher's Weekly review or discussion from other serious publications should be in these slots rather than what he have. 216.194.2.70 (talk) 04:56, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Tidy Up

I'm outlining here the changes made to get the article on what is a great story up to encyclopedia standard. I'll outline in point form and explain:

Images - the second cover, while good, doesn't add anything and distorts the text. This is a no no. The cover in the SHB box says it all. The Jean Loring image is fine as it shows her (Joker-like) madness.

Lead - just that, a strong lead with no opinion or colloquial speak. There was a lot of that in the main text.

Publication history - where all the pertinent continuity mentions and related title mentions go. That said, without colloquial armchair lecturing in the wrong tense.

Plot - most is still there, but in a more neutral tone without emotional terms and POV. Also added quite a few links on terms for laymen. Note the addition of out of universe terms that should precede a character's mention, such as "the assassin Deathstroke".

The "Cast of Characters" section has been pulled because it is simplistic; repetitive (all characters are linked, with a mention of their actions in the Plot - if there's no mention of a character's pivotal role in this series on their page then that needs to remedied) and not in keeping with Wiki-standards. We try to avoid lists as in comic terms it is fannish and again, these articles need to be encyclopedia standard.

The smaller sections such as Collected Editions etc just needed a slight tidy up. Nothing major.

Comments welcome. Asgardian (talk) 04:53, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Since there are no comments, have retained Wiki-correct version as everything stated above is valid. Summaries need to be tight, with sources, no POV, lists or repetition. Thank you. Asgardian (talk) 01:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Do we actually need a description of the Ambush Bug parody at the top?

The reason given for keeping it is that it shows the popularity of the Identity Crisis title. Having the mention of the Ambush Bug parody does that, but describing it? Interest in the Identity Crisis title doesn't convey an interest in the minutia of the Ambush Bug title. Further, it explains in detail plot points that aren't explained in context of Identity Crisis until the next section, so the joke makes no sense to someone coming to this article who doesn't already know the information in the article.

Moving this whole thing to a later section of its own would be highly appropriate.

I am not going to get into reversions over this, and I think you have done a great job working this article Asgardian, but please seriously consider shortening this to a mention or moving it back. It really reads strangely here.

Judasblue (talk) 21:30, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll do what was done over at Marvel Zombies, and stick the "alternate" story in a small section at the bottom. Asgardian (talk) 03:44, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

The information reads great there. Thanks again for your work on this, A. Judasblue (talk) 19:37, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why the parody needs to be mentioned at all. Almost everything gets parodied by something or the other. Imagine if we mentioned every time MAD did a spoof of something. SonOfPlisskin (talk) 12:57, 31 July 2015 (UTC)

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I added stuffFarrar80 (talk) 21:10, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

On the section about Brad, I added a reference to Brad Meltzer's wikipedia page and fixed a couple spelling errors. (Amberadams (talk) 00:08, 6 December 2016 (UTC))

I have a new source to use as reference: Lucas, J. R. “Justice.” Philosophy, vol. 47, no. 181, 1972, pp. 229–248. www.jstor.org/stable/3750151. Amberadams (talk) 13:55, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

On the section about "WHat is an identity crisis" I have made some edits and I deleted what was there because I did not think that the definition was good enough. I also added a section about Poland's indentity crisis.Casticastillo (talk) 02:09, 7 December 2016 (UTC)Casticastillo

I added infortmation about the author in the cection about Brad Meltzer and I also spoke about some charities that he and his wife help in many ways. Casticastillo (talk) 02:40, 7 December 2016 (UTC)Casticastillo

I added a lot to the section " What is an identity crisis" and have spoken more in depth about which I thought needed to be done. Casticastillo (talk) 04:20, 7 December 2016 (UTC)Casticastillo

Editing Revenge vs. Justice

I added information to the section titled "revenge vs. justice" seeing as how it was lacking valuable information. Amberadams (talk) 17:12, 6 December 2016 (UTC)

Did some revising and editing, also added a section Amberadams (talk) 06:16, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Identity Crisis within the text and Characters

I added more information to this section to give it more depth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amberadams (talk • contribs) 23:18, 7 December 2016 (UTC)

Peer Review for USF 256

Overall, I thought the page was well-thought out. It included several outside sources and made various analytical topic sections. I thought it was evident the group knew what they were talking about and if I am speaking honestly, I used this to help myself for our Literary Analysis Paper. The page included a valuable, stretched plot summary that was eloquently written and made it easy to comprehend what happened in the story. I personally enjoyed the section entitles "What is an Identity Crisis?". I found this section be quite obvious to write in yet most people including myself would not have thought of to add in. This can help any reader who just so happens to travel onto this page better understand what the comic is truly about. I thought it added a great deal of knowledge to the page that otherwise would have been ignored. Not only was the page helpful, it was a investigative. It explored different avenues of analysis that could lead anyone to an improved understanding. The only problem I saw was there was little to no speaking on the talk page. I found it was undoubtedly hard to see who actually did what. I think if the group made a section just for themselves to speak in, they might have found it easier to communicate with one another and tell each other what actions they were taking. Other than that, the page was certainly easy to understand and well-written. HyyyTyyy (talk) 01:53, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

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