Talk:Spic

Previous deletion debate

spic = hispanic

This is ridiculous uncited claim that needs to be deleted. The hispanic community does not use the term spic as black people use the term "nigga." Unless you can cite it, keep it deleted.

Someone deleted it. I just wanted to say thank you.

How tha fuk wud u no!? Dis aint ridiculous its true me n my chicos alwaiz call each otha spic n wen we c sum1 hu we tink might b a spic we say dat spic! Dont go actin lke u no latinos u probz sum bolillo newaiz so callate! —Preceding unsigned comment added by LocoLatino (talk • contribs) 16:03, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

now the reclaim of the racial slur nigger is different than the term spic, being a spic can be of any race its considered more an ethnic slur like the ethnic slur for a polish person is polack not a racial slur but ethnic nigger is a racist term you can t compare the 2--Wikiscribe (talk) 16:22, 11 July 2008 (UTC) Wetbacks!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.49.170 (talk) 05:25, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

@ Wikiscribe - "Spic" and "Pollack" are actually the same as "Nigger". 195.69.81.75 (talk) 15:00, 22 January 2015 (UTC

United Kingdom

The line of argument to keep this claim is ridiculous. It has already been seen in this page that the term is of American origin. To say that just because some people in the UK use it, you might as well throw in China, Poland and whatever random country comes to mind where some subculture may have adopted it. I suggest at the least change it to "some have adopted this term in the UK."

I'm doubtful that it's ever been significant in the UK because we don't have a particularly visible spanish population at all (lots of Australians for some reason, but few spanish). The only thing I could imagine is an american tourist using it. 81.187.26.106 (talk) 14:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Etymology

Isn't spic simply a contraction of (hi)sp(an)ic? —optikos 20:05, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope.^[1][2][3] That's what I thought too before I wrote the article.--Primetime 20:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe this information should be included in the article. I read the entire article with this idea in mind and would add it now if a my favorite beverage hadn't altered my thinking.

My grandfather always tells me how Spick comes from spanish mick. Because when the Latino population really started to flood into american it almost seemed like a new wave of pour immigrants who'd do nearly anything for cheap. Mick at the time was a derogatory term for irish people. Who were the first wave. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.176.21 (talk) 07:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

"No speaka de English"?! What a ridiculous etymology. FilipeS (talk) 16:38, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

A derivative of "Spanish-speaking"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.149.184.53 (talk) 11:41, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

I took out the following passage as the information was not in the references cited: "People believe "Spic" is a derogatory term, but it was never meant to be offensive at all. When police officers would pull over Hispanic or Latino people they would have no idea of what they were saying. So the police would write down "Spanish Person In Custody" which stands for Spic. For example police would say, "We got a Spic", and the term has been used ever since." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.76.224.78 (talk) 02:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

First two sentences

Spic, also spelled spik, spick, or spig, is an ethnic slur used in the U.S. for a Spanish American. It can also mean anyone of vaguely Spanish extraction, such as a Latin American, Mexican, Puerto Rican, or Filipino; or any foreigner at all; or even anyone of apparently foreign ancestry.

This sentence gives three definitions for spic: (1) a Spanish person, (2) people of "vaguely Spanish extraction" (i.e., mestizo, criollo, etc.), and (3) any foreigner at all. Changing the "Spanish American" phrase to "Hispanic/Mestizo" would be repetitive, as "Hispanic/Mestizo" is already named in the second sentence. I wouldn't mind re-ordering the senses to put the primary meaning first, or clarifying that it mainly means Mestizo Hispanics, though.--Primetime 12:14, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the format is wrong...but the implications of "Spic" in public discourse has always been tied directly to "Hispanic/Mestizo". IP Address 12:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

For instance; nobody would mistake "Antonio Banderas"--if he immigrated to America--as a "Spic". IP Address 12:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The Spanish meaning is a bit out of date. I'm going to note this in the article. Let me know if it looks OK.--Primetime 12:23, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I just put it in a recognisable context, as laypersons predominantly understand it. IP Address 12:35, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I have not heard in any source that people call others who imitate Hispanic people "spics". Also, the new intro doesn't name the three senses I described earlier. It only names one, really. I think that changing "Hispanic descent" to "Hispanic culture" and linking Hispanic and Mestizo is OK, though.--Primetime 12:43, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Well when I lived in the suburbs, Whites from the nearby cities who immersed themselves in the "Hispanic lifestyle" were referred to as "Spics"...they claimed it was their culture, regardless of not being Mestizo. The other senses you listed are not valid in actual usage, but are theoretical. IP Address 12:49, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I suppose that we could add that sense to the intro. The other senses, though, aren't theoretical, just rarer. In any case, I tend to follow standard dictionary practice in laying out meanings historically, so the reader can understand the evolution of the word. They can also quickly see the core meaning that gave rise to the derived senses.--Primetime 12:54, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

This is not Wiktionary. If you watch day time talk shows and even Jerry Springer, you'll know what it is about. These things are plainly obvious in urban communities, throughout the United States. IP Address 12:55, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

In any case, I kept most of your changes, compromising to a great degree. Also, another reason to keep the older and rarer meanings is because it helps people understand history and older texts. It also helps them understand dialectal speech. Also, know that I watched Jerry Springer occasionally when I was a teenager and I live in the United States, so I'm not too unfamiliar with what you're saying.--Primetime 12:58, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm sure nobody would have objections to a full history of the word, in the Wiktionary. Remember, this is an encyclopedia. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. IP Address 13:02, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The word encyclopedia comes from the Greek words enkyklios paideia, meaning "general education," or "well-rounded education." Merriam-Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged defines an encyclopedia as "a work that treats comprehensively all the various branches of knowledge and that is usually composed of individual articles arranged alphabetically". In short, the difference between a dictionary and an encyclopedia is that a dictionary only deals with vocabulary, while an encyclopedia deals with everything. Thus, including word history actually makes it more encyclopedic, in my opinion.--Primetime 13:06, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

The course you wish to seek, is not the Wikipedia form. Just examine the vast majority of Wikipedia's articles, which will show you that most do not follow your preference. Please do not attempt to change the Wikipedian standard by this manner. IP Address 13:08, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

No. It is Wikipedia form. (See Nigger#Etymology.) The Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary deals with excluding short definitions, not treatises on all aspects of a word.--Primetime 13:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Make a segment then. Don't dominate the article with technical details about linguistics. Follow form and standard. Even use that article you just mentioned as a model for getting it right. Wikipedia:Manual of Style Also, please don't drown the article with a pedantic focus. It's hard to read for casual readers. IP Address 13:18, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

• Note also that I kept your unecessary See also links at the bottom in addition to the rewording of the intro. It's all in the spirit of the wiki (i.e., compromise). Even though I created this article, I'm willing to keep most of your changes. However, your most recent revision destroys a lot of helpful information, so I can't allow it in its present form. As for "Nigger", that article is much longer than this. We don't need seperate sections for something that is only one sentence long!--Primetime 13:38, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
• There. I added "(cf. wigger)" to the intro. I think that that's all you're going to get from me, though.--Primetime 14:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

This isn't your article. You must come to a community consensus when there is any disagreement. There should be a section for usage in common discourse and another for etymological history. IP Address 22:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

By way of beginning to reach consensus, I'd like to comment on the preceding debate: The phrase "in public discourse" implies oral sources unless backed up by some publication. Secondly, I have never heard or read the word "spic" to mean someone who adopts hispanic culture, and I'd need a written source to believe it. Thirdly, "dominat[ing] the article with technical details about linguistics" makes it more encyclopedic, not less so. "Laypersons" be damned. Basically, I stand beside Primetime's version and highly respect his/her willingness to compromise in this debate.--Rockero 07:22, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

You stand by him to oppose me. How quaint. 420 (cannabis culture) makes me impressed. How long have you smoked pot? Ever care how it warps your mind? Nope, you can't do that when you're hooked on self-delusional insolence. IP Address 07:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I know this is from 2006, but it's embarrassing how ignorant these people were haha. Antonio Banderas would be considered a spic in the USA. Antonio Banderas does not even look white. I have seen Latin Americans that look way whiter than Antonio Banderas called a spic because of their Spanish last name let alone Antonio Banderas. Most people cannot tell a mestizo from looks. I have heard many people mistake Carlos Slim for mestizo, and he's Lebanese. I heard people refer to Vicente Fox, the former president of mexico as a spic, and he's not mestizo. His mother was an immigrant from Basque country Spain and his father's parents were German immigrants lol. Similarly, I have heard Fidel Castro being referred to as a spic, and he's of Spaniard descent on both of his parents side: Not a mestizo. I have heard people refer to Penelope Cruz as spic,and she's also not mestizo. Therefore, spic has nothing to do with mestizo. Anybody can be called a spic in the USA. All you have to be is Spanish or born in some Spanish speaking country in Latin America regardless of your ethnic background. Meaning a person born in Mexico of German descent can be considered a spic in the USA.Savedcheese (talk) 00:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

3 revert rule warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Wikipedia under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert an article to a previous version more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:19, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Protected

Rather than blocking editors for WP:3RR, I have protected the article. Please discuss the edits and reach consensus on how to proceed. Once you feel ready to resume editing, please pace a request for unprotection at WP:RFPP. Have a nice weekend. ≈ jossi ≈ t • @ 23:25, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

The article should not stay protected, but I don't see any discussion between editors. Is there still a dispute? Are editors content with the current version? -Will Beback 11:04, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what more to say than I already have. IP Address 08:42, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

UK

I have never heard this term used in the UK... I suggest changing the start of this article

Australia

Never heard of anyone bright being called a 'spic' in Australia, as such I'm deleting the uncited reference.

Not used in UK

Never have i ever heard this word used here in britain and i've lived here my whole life. I have deleted the uncited claim.

Brit928293 19:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

What you have haven't heard isn't relevant (and "my whole life" is meaningless unless we know how old you are). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The original, sourced version of the article did not mention the U.K. You're English. If you've heard it used in the U.K., feel free to revert me. The quotes in the OED are all from the U.S., though.--Dungeon Keeper 22:48, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

My edit asked for a citation insted of merely removing the claim. In fact I have heard the term, very occasionally, though it might well have been American influence. Even if I hadn't, the U.K. has many regions, with many variants of slang, and I'm not so arrogant as to suppose that because I haven't heard a term in my corner (or those places with which I'm familiar), it's therefore not used anywhere. I've often found that southerners have never heard a word from my local dialect, familiar to me as a child, and occasioanlly even express disbelief and amusement.

If no citation is forthcoming within, say, a week, then I'll remove the claim. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 23:12, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

It's interesting that this debate began now, as yesterday The Sun (a newspaper I detest in almost every respect) decided to run this on its front page. It contains usage of the word "spic", which I previously also had thought to be largely a US thing. I don't really want to add this to the article, in case it is not sufficient. And in any respect, I'm awful at doing proper citations anyway. --Dreaded Walrus 08:44, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Have you got a proper link for that? The only reference that comes up on a site search is this and it appears to be just a headline (says 'click on the image' but there is no image). From the headline it looks like it was an article specifically about racial slurs, and therefore it's as likely they picked up the word from wikipedia (or at least google) than it reflecting any common usage, as they had an article to write and the Sun isn't exactly known for verifying its sources. 81.187.26.106 (talk) 14:50, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I stand corrected. I did look it up in Oxford's slang dictionary, though, and it said it was a U.S. term, so I think that we should qualify the statement with "occasionally." I wouldn't be surpised that The Sun did that, though. They're actually the ones who coined the term Argie in the Falklands War.--Dungeon Keeper 22:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I suspect, though sadly cant' cite a reliable source for this (yet), that the term came over with American troops during WWII. My paternal grandfather had a splendid collection of Giles annuals from the very early fifties through to the 1970s. They were an absolute mine of social observation and a fascinating potted history of how Middle England changed after the war. I recall several cartoons making mention of Spics, and it was a term my maternal grandfather (an unreconstructued 1940s East End spiv) was fond of using as well. It fell rapidly out of favor during the 1960s and I doubt its used much, if at all these, days. Gwernol 22:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I have occasionally heard the term used by teenagers in this country, but it is very rare, and possibly influenced by the proliferation of US media. I would be all for the opening saying "occasionally". --Dreaded Walrus 07:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Different meaning of 'spic'

I grew up in Liverpool, UK, and the word 'spic' was always used to refer to someone with Down's Syndrome, or any other sort of cerebral palsy, essentially the same as 'spaz'. Has anyone else heard it used in this context? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.234.4.10 (talk) 14:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

Sounds like a corruption of 'spac'. The problem with slang is it means different things to different people, even in the same country. IMO the wikipedia article should concentrate on the particular US meaning of it, otherise it's going to get extremely bloated. 81.187.26.106 (talk) 14:45, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Spic and Span

All of the sources listed in this article relate to the etymology of Spic, but one section mentions Spic and Span as being a term for a mixed race couple(Puerto Rican/African). I can't find anything in the sources mentioning this, so I flagged that section as needing a citation. I'll check back in a week or so and if I see no sourcing for that particular statement, I'll remove it. --68.229.46.41 05:58, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The last comment by 68.229.46.41 was posted by me, Visual77, but I often forget to log in. --Visual77 06:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

It's from the Casell Dictionary of Slang. It was at the bottom, but wasn't mentioned directly in the text. So, I made it into an inline citation.--Dungeon Keeper 06:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Surely this section should say that the cleaning product presumably takes its name from the phrase "spick and span" (usually spelled with a k) which the OED dates back to 1665, meaning "Particularly neat, trim, or smart", (not to mention that "spick and span" itself is a shortening of a "spick and span new" that dates back to the late 1500s, etc). It currently sounds like someone randomly named a cleaning product "slur and word", then this phrase itself became a slur with a more narrow meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.3.65.154 (talk) 21:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

SPIC as an acronym

When I was in junior high, I was in a special school program where we had a college-level curriculum. One of the most astonishing things I came across while learning a more “honest” version of United States history was that the term “spic” was used as an acronym. The acronym was used in signage and in print in order to save on word space and print costs. In the U.S. History textbook, we saw images of signs soliciting for manual labor – but stated “SPIC’s need not apply”. In this particular instance, SPIC (capitalized) was representative of Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, and Colored. --Mespinola 15:08, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I read it was an ancronym for Spanish Indian and Colored, ie the people of Puerto Rico —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Paleocon (talk • contribs) 19:37, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Alleged acronyms are frequent in folk etymology. FilipeS (talk) 16:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Protection

Temporarily protected after a dispute ending with a user saying he would edit the page. Bovester 20:44, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Hispanics in the United States - requested move

Hello everyone. There is at present a discussion going on at Hispanics in the United States, due to the request that the page be moved to Hispanic Americans. Would you like to comment please? Thank you. The Ogre 18:03, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Use of Derogatory Term "Spic"

I am removing the connection of the derogatory term “spic” to Italians or Italian Americans. The source cited is the Urban Dictionary. However, if one goes to that source, there is no suggestion that this ethnic slur is used in common parlance to mean Italian or Italian American. However, even if this was not true, I think it is ludicrous to suggest that the Urban Dictionary is a legitimate source for an encyclopedic article. Since “spic” does not apply to Italians or Italian Americans, all references to Italian or Italian American Wikipedia articles or derogatory terms have been deleted, since they are not relevant to this article. Paraloco needs to justify his wish to broaden the term “spic” to Italians or Italian Americans in Talk. Philantonia (talk) 21:03, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

I am going to add this back in, as Wentworth and Flexner, in their earlier "Dictionary of American Slang," (and yes, it's that Flexner who was the second author), do define "spiggoty" as a contraction of "spaghetti", and note it as a related slur for Italian Americans and Italians, along with "dago". 73.115.53.151 (talk) 00:38, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

I've added this back in, along with an explanation that *historically* the word did once mean Italian Americans and Italians. Since the etymology is an important part of any word definition, it should stay, as such. 73.115.53.151 (talk) 01:10, 9 June 2019 (UTC)