Talk:Roslagen

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Viking and Varjags

The word viking is never mentioned in the Nestor cronicles refering to the varjags, I remove this word. Dan Koehl 15:04, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The right decision. 83.149.3.92 (talk) 17:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Roslagen and Rus

It is unknown whether Roslagen and Rus have the same background. Goliath74 17:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

But is the most accepted theory due to the finnish and estonian names for Sweden. --94.101.217.222 (talk) 13:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you see a very weak point of this "theory": Roden-Rodzlagen become "Roslagen" only in XV century, while Rus' (or Rhos) was known at least from IX century. Moreover, why Slavs would borrow finnish word "ruotsi" for sweden, when they knew them as "svei" (свеи), as in Nestor's chronicle: "И пошли за море к варягам, к руси. Те варяги назывались русью, как другие называются свеи, а иные норманны и англы, а ещё иные готы" which is "These varangians was named Rus', as others named svei, and others normanns and angles and other - goths". So, author knows different people - Rus, Sveons, Normanns, Angles and Goths and explicitly points that Rus is not the same as Svei (swedes). 195.62.48.5 (talk) 09:45, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rus is probably the island of Rügen. Roden - 1296, rodzkarlena, rodzmän, Rodzlagen - XV century. 83.149.3.92 (talk) 17:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC, d

Sorry, this not probable. It is only a possibility, but only a very unlikely one. --94.101.217.222 (talk) 13:37, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Rowing team"

A "roslag" (lit. "rowing team") was in old-swedish the term used for a boat crew (see leidang ), could this be coincidental or is it infact the same word? I have no expertice on this, so feel free to post comments if you have anything to add. --Njård 12:27, 9 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is a usual explanation of the origin of the name Roslagen. Roslagen was the area, from which men were recruited to the fleet rather than to the army. E.G. (talk) 11:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a fantastic explanation of the name ("rowing team" - divers). 83.149.3.92 (talk) 17:07, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No, this explanation is not ,fantastic' but plausible. It should therefore be included here with its reference.--94.101.217.222 (talk) 13:41, 17 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Paleogeography

Hi In the map in english version of Folklands in Svitjod is the north eastern part missing (marked by a white spot on the map) located between Örbyhus hundrade and Frösåkers skeppslag Why that. Is it something I am missing or not understand. But its not explaned in the map.

Jan Österberg från Roslagen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.235.46.204 (talk) 09:33, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ruslagen first mentioned in chronicles only in the XIII century, and the territory Ruslagen in the IX century was under water as sea levels in the area, according to Swedish researchers, was then at 6-7 meters higher than at present. So Ruslagen nothing to do with Rus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.91.174.14 (talk) 07:10, 5 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

These Swedish paleogeographers (Karin Calissendorf, arkivarie vid Ortnamnarkivet i Uppsala, Ortnamn i Uppland. Stockholm, 1986. S.11) 83.149.3.92 (talk) 16:39, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Karin Calissendorff works at "Ortnamnarkivet" in Uppsala as something of an expert at tracing the origins of the names of towns, villages, farms etc. But she's not an expert in the field of paleogeography, and her book, which has nothing to do with paleogeography, can not be used as a reliable source for a claim about water levels in Roslagen more than a thousand years ago. Thomas.W (talk) 17:42, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Total BS. Roslagen is a large geographic area that, like all land in that part of Sweden, is high above the waterline today, far more than 6-7 meters. That certain small parts of what today is along the waterline might have been under water (though not 6-7 m) during Viking times is of no importance what so ever. Roslagen/Roden existed, and was both populated and known under that name long before Viking times. Thomas.W (talk) 17:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

False. Roden - 1296, rodzkarlena, rodzmän, Rodzlagen - XV century. 83.149.3.92 (talk) 17:12, 15 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

83.149.2.30 (talk) 16:20, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

So? That there has been post-glacial rebound in all of Scandinavia is nothing new, it's even mentioned in the caption of the image in the article. It has just made people move a bit further east. Roden was the area along the coast as it was then, just like Roslagen is the area along the coast as it is now. Or to be precise Roden was a larger area than Roslagen is today, because it stretched along the coast from quite a bit to the north of modern day Roslagen all the way down to S:a Anna Skärgård in Östergötland. Areas where the people were required to provide the king with manned ships in times of war instead of infantry units. Because, believe it or not, there was a coastline even a thousand years ago. Which means that your edits are total rubbish, and will be reverted. Thomas.W (talk) 17:08, 17 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"lagen" in Roslagen

So what does "lagen" in Roslagen really mean? There is no explanation about it. Komitsuki (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

All districts had a lagsaga, and were often named after it. A lagsaga was more an area which followed a certain law. The word lag means law. The coast had also something called skeppslag, which indicated a fleet, belonging to the Ledung. why Roslagen, Rodslagen, and Rodzslagen was short for Rodens skeppslag. Dan Koehl (talk) 17:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with Roden, Sweden

Subject matter identical. Newbiepedian (talk · contribs · X! · logs) 17:18, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Agree Dan Koehl (talk) 17:45, 2 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Agree This will perfectively remove the smaller article which, my opinion – is that merging Roden is going to be fine. newroderick895 (talk) 17:11, 16 March 2018 (UTC)newroderick895[reply]
Agree The article Roden, Sweden is redundant. Lappspira (talk) 18:13, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Disagree The two articles are not about the same subject, since Roden referred to a much larger area than Roslagen (Roden also included the coast of Östergötland, plus coastal areas on the other side of the Baltic Sea). - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 18:43, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
AgreeIf Roden is larger, then Roslagen can move to it a subset, potentially with its own section. Klbrain (talk) 12:33, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Klbrain: Merging Roslagen inte Roden? You must be joking, if a merger is to take place it is Roden that should be merged into Roslagen, since Roslagen is a geographical term that is in current use, while Roden is a historical, no longer used, geographical term. Your proposal is, admittedly slightly exaggerated, like merging the article about Italy into the article about the Roman Empire... - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 12:50, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree Happy to change my position given such a clear argument, eloquently expressed. Klbrain (talk) 15:14, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Reversed ethymology

"A person from Roslagen is called a "Rospigg" which means "inhabitant of Ros". Swedes from the Roslagen area, that is "the people of Ros"..."

No, no. I grew up in this area. "Rospigg" is used, occasionally, but it is a playful modern term, meaning "rose thorn", as "ros" means "rose" in Swedish. "Pigg" means "thorn", in this setting. The word certainly not means "the people of Ros", that must be a speculation of someone whose native language isn't Swedish. It is nothing but an awkward attempt to make a connection between Roslagen and Rus.

It is more tempting to accept the explanation Roslagen = rowing crew (or rather "crews", plural). It fits very well with modern Swedish. But the term is not documented early enough for that to be a plausible explanation, at least not as a rowing team for the viking age leidung. Also, the first recorded use, "Rodzlagen" clearly points to the earlier name Roden, which again clearly is connected to another old Swedish word, "rote" which means part, in early times meaning "[small] administrative part of the country, particularly in military use. Roden/ Roslagen is a far too large area to be a "rote", though. It makes good sense to assume it is plural of rote, meaning "The rotes" (to anglify the term). As opposed to the inland, which was administratively divided into hundreds.

The connection between these coastal areas and rowing is particularly tempting, but unfortunately "rote" has firm roots in other european languages, germanic as well as latin ... and finnish. This is really interesting, as "rote" (Swedish) is "ruotu" in Finnish, which very much resembles the Finnish name for Sweden: Ruotsi. And remember that Roden was the eastern-most part of Sweden (closest to nowadays-Finland). It is plausible that the Finnish name originally meant something like "The country of rotes" - it's either that, or referring to Roden, which in turn refers to rotes.

Now, Finnish language was widespread in the north-eastern Europe, at the time, and I would say it seems very plausible "Rus" originated from the finnish "Ruotsi", rather than from Swedish/ Norse Roden. Mostly because of the s-sound present in the Finnish term, but not in the Swedish term (of the time; "Roslagen" was coined much later).

So, finally, the ending "-lagen" in Roslagen. What could that mean? In modern Swedish it is straightforward, it means either "the law" or "the crews". As mentioned, it came into use too late for "the crews" to be a plausible root. And the area was too small to ever have its own law (it was part of Uppland, which had Upplands-lagen). Also, the time of it's first recorded use also disqualify the term to refer to "law", by then, even the law of Uppland had lost its relevance. Also, no other area in Sweden has a name that parallel "Danelagen" ("Danish Law") of Great Britain at the time. It is more likely that "Rodzlagen" relates to the modern Swedish word "läge", meaning [geographical] placing, and modern Norwegian "lag" = "area" ("nabolag" = neighborhood). Simply, "the area of Roden" or "the hood of Roden", "Roden-hood". The z-sound is just there to make it easier to pronounce.

All in all, yes, it is plausible there is a connection between Roslagen and Rus, ethymologically as well as historically, but it is not as simple and romantic as one might think at first sight.

VonPalm (talk) 22:37, 7 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Total rubbish. Wikipedia isn't a place for propagating own theories... - Tom | Thomas.W ^talk 12:52, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]