Talk:Fictional currency

Do we really need to list ALL those games?

I can think of a couple that are already missing, but seriously, just because something was used in a computer game (energy??) as a tradable commodity does not mean it deserves to be listed here. A tidy up is required methinks.
― Zen tom 19:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

My concern would have a similar heading, but differs as to the purpose. The list of “fictional” currencies in the Video Games section seems to blur the distinction between fictional exchange and limited theater of exchange — limited by comparison to, e.g., a Yen or a Rupee: many of those Video Game currencies are actually used by people — the users of the games, — in addition to existing in a so–called fictional world.
Furthermore, a few of them aren't quite currencies, per se, but we can let that distinction slide for the time being.
What are the criteria for inclusion as example, here in this stub of an article? — JamesEG (talk) 15:58, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
(Because I recognized, at bit too late, that the object of my question wasn't satisfactorily clear: it concerns the page List of fictional currencies, the Talk: page for which redirects here.) — 16:04, 2 May 2017 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by JamesEG (talk • contribs)

This is an educational topic, and you can read this and fill your mind with a bunch of random currencies. Why are you here, anyways? PleaseUseAnotherUsername (talk) 00:17, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Simoleons

"Simoleons from Sim City, The Sims and other similar computer games"

Did I really write that? What a horrible pun - perhaps "similar" should be removed? --B.d.mills 06:34, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Isn't from Neal Stephenson's The Great Simoleon Caper? --Error 1 July 2005 01:23 (UTC)

I have the impression that it's American slang from, at a guess, the Prohibition period. —Tamfang (talk) 21:39, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

If memory serves, the word was used in Who Framed Roger Rabbit (1988), well before Stephenson's story. —Tamfang (talk) 23:35, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

From 1881, apparently! Woodroar (talk) 00:06, 7 June 2023 (UTC)

Art money

I'd like to call attention to the near-fictional currency called "art money"; see http://www.art-money.org.
― Noe 20:33, 28 November 2004 (UTC)

Credits

"Credits" gets used in grillions of SF millieu. Can't we collapse it into one entry, listing the representative examples?

Also, while I'm ranting, where are the NuYen (Shadowrun)? Talking about "credits", where are Babylon 5 and Traveller (the GDW role playing game)?

And, of course, I've forgotten to log in. Silly me. -- 131.7.251.200 20:07, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Lets please not have any more separate entries for Credits. Say 'and Bab5" on the first entry, and remember to keep game and other works currency separate.
― Lotusduck 00:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Game credits separated

I have separated this into: from a game and not from a game. I probably missed a lot, I only moved what I knew were games. Every game has it's own currency, not every story does. I think people in general want to look through game currencies and fiction currencies for different reasons. Ooops, I forgot to add monopoly money.

I'm iffy about Naquadah. Is spice a currency in Dune? I think no. I haven't read the Dune books either though. But is oil a currency in real life? Not even close. No effiecient way of carrying it, really.
― Lotusduck 17:36, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Fictional currency used in real life?

At the World Bodypainting Festival 2006, there was a separate currency just for the festival. It was called Klex, and was available in plastic coins of value ½, 1 and 2 Klex. It could actually be used as payment for every small purchase (such as snacks and drinks) on the festival grounds, and had a fixed exchange rate of 1 Klex = 1 €. So what does this make this Klex? A real-world currency, a fictional currency, just a fancy way of using Euros, or what? JIP | Talk 11:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds to me just like a form of scrip, like Disney Dollars. Nik42 06:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Certainly not fictional if it was being used in real life - well, if the WBF is real life. 86.4.186.107 (talk) 15:02, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Non-fictional fictional currency?

One entry reads: "Piastres, drachmae, and taels appear in the alternate history novel The Years of Rice and Salt by Kim Stanley Robinson. The first two are used in Islamic Europe; the latter is the Chinese currency." Historically, piastres and drachmae were used in Europe and taels were used in China. So it doesn't seem like these are really fictional currency, although obviously since this is a fictional work they're used in situations which are fictional. But does that mean every novel that mentions dollars, pounds, francs, lirae, etc. can be listed in this article? PubliusFL 17:27, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that doesn't sound like a fictional currency to me, either. I suppose if an althistory book had something like, say, "British dollars" or "United States pounds", where a real currency is used in a country that never used it, it could be on the list. Is this a situation like that? Nik42 01:03, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Why do Kongbucks and Hong Kong Luna Dollars share a line?

They're on the same line in the list, though they are not related whatsoever.. Donkey Kong being separate from Hong Kong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.176.8.18 (talk) 23:22, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Pokébuck sign.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Move and trim

I made a bold move and trimmed the article of all but the most notable examples because I think the AFD showed that the subject of fictional currency is notable, even if the list of all examples is not. I encourage other editors to add more examples of notable trends in the use of fictional currencies and NOT to add an entry for the fictional currency of their favorite TV show. Axem Titanium (talk) 07:08, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Full list of examples – old diff prior to deletion. For easy future reference. -- Quiddity (talk) 08:05, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, this has really turned from a laundry list of random examples, to a high quality article on a relatively niche article. Nice job to the contributors, it turned out really well. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 16:10, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Twas hard work though! I'd really appreciate it if anybody has access to the Clue/Nicholls The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction as apparently it also covers this topic, but I don't have any way to access it. TheGrappler (talk)

I support the move. Perhaps "Money in fiction" might have been a better title but that would have involved more general discussion of the use of money e.g. to drive a plot, or as the moral of the story. There's some information available on that in the source materials but more general reference guides are needed as well. Perhaps Money in fiction is best left for a separate article and another day, with a subsection on currency for which this can be the spun-out main article.

I think that substantial portions of the list should be returned to this page - at the moment the "Examples" section is (a) very repetitive and (b) lacks many concrete examples! But I support the bold removal that was done. It's probably best to act discerningly in terms of adding back entries. One sensible idea to stop the list becoming apparently indiscriminate, would be to require the examples involved to have been mentioned in secondary sources e.g. a specialized encyclopedia. A slightly more liberal attitude would allow the inclusion of a couple of illustrative instances of a type of usage (e.g. "credit") that is supported in secondary sources. Does that seem reasonable? TheGrappler (talk) 01:09, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The entries that have descriptions/analysis elsewhere could be most easily returned. Eg. Final_Fantasy_gameplay#Currency, Sonic_the_Hedgehog_(series)#Rings, Energon (power source), Rupee_(The_Legend_of_Zelda_series)#Hyrule, Whuffie, Money_in_harry_potter#Economy, Federation credit, Ankh-Morpork#Currency, Mark_(Pern)#Currency. The other items will need further research. -- Quiddity (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. Does anybody have any ideas on citations for the last bits on this page at the mo? It was easy enough to find sources for scifi and fantasy but the computer game part seems harder. TheGrappler (talk) 11:40, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

A few changes and a query

The "citation needed" in the lede is unnecessary - there are two citations in the lede, and one of them includes Kalganid (a fictional currency in Asimov's Foundation series - French WP has a quite pointless substub on it). At some point the article should be rewritten in such a way that the lede no longer needs citations in it!

"Literature and film" in lede - not sure this is necessary; what about TV/computer games etc? Just stick with "fiction", as it's broader.

"Notable trends" -> "Trends", in general articles should only cover "notable" trends anyway so seemed a bit superfluous.

Other references - rejigged in a few places, addition of new material into previously referenced paragraphs has unfortunately made it harder to see what source is supporting which fact.

I removed the following example of "intrinsically valuable currencies": the [[Dungeons & Dragons]] world of [[Krynn]] where [[steel]] coins are used,<ref>{{cite book|last=Weiss |first=Margaret |last2=Hickman |first2=Tracy |title=Dragons of Autumn Twilight |year=2000|page= |publisher=[[Wizards of the Coast]]|isbn=0786915749}}</ref>

The fact the currency is steel-based needs a page reference; but moreover the book needs to make clear that the currency itself has value because the steel it is made of is inherently useful/valuable. The point of the subsection it is in, is that some sci-fi and fantasy writers have imagined worlds where the value of the currency lies in the material it is made from, or what it is guaranteed to be exchangeable for, rather than fiat value. The fact coins are made of steel on Krynn may be useful somewhere else in this article, but note that the fact that most coins used today are made of copper and nickel does not mean they are "inherently valuable". The value of the coin is greater than the value of the metal. Is that the case in the D&D book? Obviously if they smelt their money into weapons, and vice versa, that would be an interesting, and quite extreme, example of "inherent value"! TheGrappler (talk) 17:18, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

I believe that is exactly what the authors wrote: because weapons were in such high demand on Krynn, steel was more valuable than gold; and in that economy, a sufficient quantity of steel coins would be handed over to a weaponsmith to fashion a weapon, plus extra as a fee. This concept of currency with intrinsic value is not so far-fetched. In Mesoamerica, the cocoa bean was a form of currency; in medievel Japan, the economy was based on rice. I'll see about finding that page number. Boneyard90 (talk) 17:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

That is using a primary source to support the content. Third party content is better to show that the usage is a notable example. Active Banana (^bananaphone 17:55, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Is the distinction valid in this case? A primary source on a fictional concept or event; it's like saying one shouldn't cite Moby Dick when stating that Captain Ahab was hunting a white whale. Now, I'll grant you, if I write that the fictional steel coins of Krynn are the best example, than we need a 3rd-party, but as it stands, the authors state pretty plainly, about the world they created, steel coins are used as currency and they are used to make weapons. And if I may ask, why is this example contested, and not the un-referenced Dune or Apprentice Adept examples? Boneyard90 (talk) 18:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Clearly the commentary and analysis in Moby Dick is NOT supported by Wikipedia editors looking at the pages of Moby Dick, it is by published scholars who have looked at Moby Dick. Active Banana (^bananaphone 19:04, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Maye I shouldn't have linked it. My point is, if I wrote "Captain Ahab pursued a white whale", couldn't I reference a page number in the original novel? If I wrote that Juliet killed herself, could I reference the play Romeo & Juliet?

I modified the wording of the Dragonlance mention, and added a non-canonical source as a reference, with page number, which states that steel is worth more than gold by weight. I'll still look for the page number that goes with the reference to the novel. Boneyard90 (talk) 19:25, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

The "Dune" and "Apprentice Adept" examples came directly from the cited secondary source - that's why I [hopefully temporarily] removed the D&D example. The reason the article is in its current state, is that it barely survived an AFD over the issue of it containing endless examples from primary sources, with no overall structure or themes developed from secondary sources. To get through the AFD it was rewritten from secondary sources - "fictional currency" has actually been treated as an encyclopedic topic elsewhere - and generally one source per paragraph! Recently there have been more additions of primary material, which unfortunately has broken the clarity of how much material in each paragraph is actually sourceable to the citation given. I did manage to find a secondary source for the Futurama example (although not one that was very satisfying: if I could unearth an episode review in which the compound-interest billionaire storyline was discussed as a "sci-fi cliche" then that would have been perfect!). I'm a little torn about using a primary source for the D&D material but I'm less dogmatic than Active Banana. In the context where it was being used, if it serves as a slightly different example of inherently valuable currency (and actually the idea of smelting weapons into money or vice versa is quite an interesting one, with both parallels and differences to the Banks example) then arguably there's a place for it.

However, there are some risks attached to that. Firstly, it needs to be clearly referenced. So pages rather than a whole book (and perhaps it should use the "quote" parameter in the citation template). Secondly, there needs to be absolutely no doubt that the steel coinage is not a fiat currency (i.e. the fact the coins are made of steel needs to be more significant than the fact modern coins are made of cupro-nickel), and like what Active Banana says about Moby Dick, this needs to be completely clear from the source text rather than a matter of editorial interpretation. Thirdly, it's important the article as a whole doesn't get bogged down again by incorporation of hundreds of examples from primary sources. Most examples have been editorially selected by other texts as key examples of how currency is treated in fiction. We need to exercise discretion in any other examples we incorporate. Fourthly, and following on from that, such use of editorial judgment in the selection of examples needs to avoid breaching WP:SYNTHESIS. This is where Active Banana has a particularly strong point, although I'm satisfied that the D&D example is discussable within the bounds set by secondary sources in establishing themes for this article. For instance, when I was rewriting this article from scratch, it would have been wrong for me to bunch together several of the examples and say "there is a theme in fiction of currencies which have inherent rather than fiat value". However, since the secondary source has established the theme, and I've already listed all the examples that were used in that text, I'm open to the idea of including the D&D example within that theme (so long as it can be unequivocally demonstrated that it belongs there, in the same way that it's completely obvious the Futurama example belongs to the theme identified in secondary sources of "time travel compound interest"). TheGrappler (talk) 19:30, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Well, I don't have that particular novel on hand at the moment, though I'll continue looking for it. My issue as far as the other references (Dune, etc.) is that they are even more generic; that is, there's no explanation of what is being used as intrinsic currency, and it was not clear that the encyclopedia citation further down the paragraph included the Dune/Apprentice works. I agree that too many articles contain endless trivial references, but I think we also agree that the Dragonlance reference has merit here. I can see you're acting in good faith, so if you choose to remove the Dragonlance mention again, pending additional references, I won't contest it. Boneyard90 (talk) 20:22, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately the secondary source was rather generic. In fact it might be helpful if the article could be expanded to explain why Dune is a good example of an intrinsically valuable currency - there are a lot of secondary sources available for that series, so perhaps a citation can be found. Like you say, it's definitely worse than e.g. the Banks example where more detail was supplied in the sources!

The "which citation supports what in the text" problem is quite a serious one, and is producing very bad situations where insertions are being made in heavily cited articles and consequently breaking up any clear picture of which citation applies where. It's very ugly to cite every sentence, when one source supplied a whole paragraph or section, but unfortunately it may be the only way to make sourced texts "insertion-proof"! I read somewhere that a technical solution to this problem was being worked on (so it would be visibly clear what was sourced to where, IIRC by highlighting text) but even if that ever does come online I can't think it will be soon!

I'm tempted to let the Dragonlance text stay for now, even though the current ref is imperfect, since it's now clear from what you say that it fits pretty well into that section. Technically, Active Banana or another editor who agrees with him would be within their rights to remove it. Finding a good balance between primary and secondary sources is probably going to be the key to maintaining this article's quality. It would help if an editor with access to Clue/Nicholls The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction could be found to beef up the secondary material! TheGrappler (talk) 20:43, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Mild Repetition...

"Trends..." -vs- "Concept and creation"
For science fiction set in the near future, modern currency names are often used. The selection of familiar currencies such as the dollar or yen, particularly in the far future, may be used to make suggestions about the way history unfolded; however, it would seem strange for aliens to use a recognizable currency.[3]
Almost the exact same sentence is used in the first para of the "Concept and creation" section as well as the "Trends..." section. Suggest elimination of at least one, or some form of differentiation in prose.
24.250.206.199 (talk) 17:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

No video game currencies

There are currency fictionalized the video game world, but that doesn't appear on the page. Can someone add that list? An expert of the world known as WebTV3! (talk) 01:52, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

rising force online had Dalant, disena, gold, and CP. each pertaining to a different race and global exchange currency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.191.171.124 (talk) 04:38, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

KoL currencies

I notice that this page lists two currencies within Kingdom of Loathing, however, there are at least eleven more: nickels, dimes, Ka coins, Chroners, hobo nickels, Freddy Kruegerands, FunFunds, Wal-Mart gift certificates, Volcoinos, Coinspiracy, and Beach Bucks; additionally, Mr. Accessories divide into ten Uncle Bucks each. All of which have associated images, which may or may not be allowed by image fair use policies. Would it even be reasonable to list them all?

24.211.128.26 (talk) 21:15, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

is it really a unit?

In utopian fiction, a money-free economy may still need a unit of exchange: in The Great Explosion by Eric Frank Russell, the Gands use favor-exchange based on "obs" (obligations).

The value of a favor/ob seems, reasonably enough, to be flexible. From memory: "The sooner the firefighters get there, the heavier the obs." I don't think there's any mention of a specific number of obs (other than one). —Tamfang (talk) 01:28, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Cyberpunk RPG

Eurodollar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.24.247.24 (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Guardians of the Galaxy unit symbol

When I saw that the "movies" section of the article had no symbol for Guardians of the Galaxy currency, I vaguely remembered seeing a U with one or two lines across it on a screen in the movie. Is there one? If so, can someone please add it? Thanks. 151.188.105.163 (talk) 13:46, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

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time and magic

in the Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling, magically created currency is time-limited

Like fairy gold, or in some other way? —Tamfang (talk) 06:49, 26 February 2024 (UTC)