Talk:Bulleh Shah

Dialect of Punjabi or Sindhi?

Siraiki is described by many other sources as a dialect of Punjabi, not Sindhi. Is Siraiki a dialect of Punjabi or Sindhi? Or is it a combination of these two languages. 24 July, 2005

Many people consider it a dialect of Punjabi, others don't! But it's normally classed with Punjabi or a separate language, not usually with Sindhi. Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 14:46, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Mustansir Hussain Tarar, in his book, Bahhao (بھا و) (Flow) present a thesis that sindhi and punjabi are actually same race. And it seems very rational because the language changes from Sindhi to Punjabi as we move twords north. changing gradually from Sindhi, sindhish Saraiki, Saraiki, punjabish Saraiki and finally Punjabi. I can't really present a proof, but you can feel it as you listen people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.157.130.68 (talk) 07:16, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

---

Whoever keeps trying to stick in links to this website under "Related Articles", can you please STOP?

"Related Articles" is for Wikipedia articles. "External Links" is for links to external websites.

The English version of the Bulleh Shah page from the kasur.20fr.com site is already listed under links. Sarabseth 17:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

A word about Nusrat

Why there is no reference to ustad nusrat fateh ali khan's contribution to Baba bulleh shah's work

- Anudeep Toora

Modern Renditions

Sfacets changed "the abstruse metaphysical poem Bullah Ki Jaana" to "the poem Bullah Ki Jaana", calling it pov wording.

I actually regard that as a factual description. It is definitely a metaphysical poem (surely there can be no dispute about that?), and it is widely regarded as one of his most difficult poems to understand, hence abstruse seems appropriate.

I'll leave it to others to decide whether it should say "the poem" or "the metaphysical poem" or "the abstruse metaphysical poem". Sarabseth 11:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm yes, maybe pov was a bit strong a term. (my apologies, it was late at night, my vocabulary was rather limited at the time) It is indeed a good description, however placing "abstruse metaphysical poem" next to "pop song"creates a pejorative denotation, casting the modern renditions of said poems in a bad light.

But I see your point. Sfacets 12:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

If anything, my point was really how improbable it is that an abstruse metaphysical poem would become a big pop hit.

So what would you like to do with that sentence? Add back the "abstruse metaphysical" or make some other change? Sarabseth 03:53, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

M. Ahsan Iqbal

Was he a contemporary of Bulleh Shah? --Sarabseth 12:38, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Edit by Jerry lavoie on Feb 8

I don't think the fact that the quotations are not in English should be the issue. They can be easily translated if they're worth keeping.

So maybe the issue is: who are these people who are being quoted? If Bulleh Shah was their teacher, the quotes have to be taken from historical texts. If someone can provide citations, perhaps the quotes are worth restoring? --Sarabseth 15:59, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Opening sentence

I'm not sure it's better to put his birth name first. He wrote under the name Bulleh Shah. The title for his entry is also Bulleh Shah not Abdullah Shah.

Should the Bob Dylan entry start: "Robert Zimmerman, better known as Bob Dylan, was a ..."?

(For the record, that entry starts: "Bob Dylan (born Robert Allen Zimmerman, May 24, 1941)...")

It's exactly the same issue, I think. --Sarabseth 14:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Oops- you're right. I changed it because I misread MoS:BIO. I thought it specifically stated that the birth name should come first, but it doesn't have to. johnpseudo 15:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

External links

I did not provide the external link to the song "Aik Alif" with English Subtitles and Punjabi text because I was promoting either the song or the band. For the record, I have no connection to the band, though I heard them perform once. I added the link because I find this kind of link helpful as a teacher and as a student. It is possible that I am, through my ignorance of the field, unfairly promoting this one band. If there are many other, perhaps better, modern renditions of Bulleh Shah's work available on the web with text and English subtitles, I would love to see those links posted. I have no desire to promote one artist arbitrarily. But given that there is not a space issue, I do not see the problem with keeping the link. If you think I'm wrong, let's talk about it on this talk page.ReadHowell (talk) 19:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

There are probably several videos of Bulleh Shah songs on YouTube with English translations, links to which cannot be posted as per WP policy.

This link properly belongs on the Sain Zahoor page, where it already exists. (apart from possible copyright violation issues, that is...)

Linking to the Sain Zahoor page, as you did, in the "Modern Renditions" section is sufficient, I think.

Under the circumstances, I think we should remove the link from "External links". --Sarabseth (talk) 23:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair enough. My understanding of the WP on links to YouTube is that there is not a problem with posting links to YouTube unless the YouTube postings are copyright violations. The other links are on those pages because I put them there, not because I found them there. 67.247.213.180 (talk) 14:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

80.134.9.40 (talk) 10:25, 21 March 2017 (UTC) The link "Littérateurs of the Punjabi language" is broken. 2017-03-21.

Hugely

Hello. I just wanted to explain my removal of the word "hugely". It seemed to be challenged here. I think that "it became hugely popular" sounds peacock-ish and that the "hugely" is hugely unnecessary ;) especially since it is not sourced. That being said, I don't really care, I just saw the challenge of the word and did what I thought was the best way to deal with it. Cheers! Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 22:13, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Hi! It's hard to read the mind of the person who inserted that "not hugely". Could be just pointless vandalism, for instance. That sentence has read that way for a very long time, with no objections. I think it reads better with the word "hugely" than without. That song was indeed a huge hit; maybe a reference can be found. --Sarabseth (talk) 22:27, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

That was easier done than said. There were references at Bullah Ki Jaana. --Sarabseth (talk) 22:34, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I saw that, nice job. No objections from me anymore, not that you'd have had anymore fro me anyway :) Cheers! Apparition^{11 Complaints}/Mistakes 22:43, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Banda Singh Bahadur

Removed the following material from the article:

Banda Singh Bahadur was a contemporary of Bulleh Shah. In retaliation for the murder of Guru Gobind Singh's two sons by Aurangzeb, he sought revenge by killing common Muslims. Baba Bulleh Shah tried to convince Banda Singh Bairagi to renounce his campaign of revenge. Bulleh Shah told him that the same sword which fell upon Guru Gobind Singh's sons and innocent Sikhs also fell upon innocent Muslims. Hence killing innocent Muslim was not the answer to Aurangzeb's reign of oppression.

[CLARIFICATION About Baba Banda Singh Ji Bahadur: Baba Banda Singh Bahadur Ji never killed any innocent civilians. He was a saint and was living in highest stages of spirituality. He only took a sword against bad Islamic rulers. He also had support from some highly acclaimed spiritual leaders of islaam (for example Peer Budhu Shah Ji)].

Please do not re-insert into article without citations in support. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:05, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Unexplained Deletion

Hi Sarbath
Would you please provide reasons for your deletion.
If the reason is an absence of an english translation , please provide one . Incidently you did not only remove the Gurmukhi but also the Hindi text ...perhaps you could add a shahmulhi text .
I have provided a proper citation to the content I introduced . Incidently the citations in this article could be improved
Intothefire (talk) 10:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Who, I wonder, is Sarbath?

I guess I should have said "Gurmukhi and Hindi" in my edit summary.

There was more than one reason for the deletion. First, it doesn't make sense to insert material in foreign languages into an English article (since the article is for English-speaking readers). At the very least, it should be in transliteration form (i.e. Roman Punjabi), with a translation. Equally importantly, some reason or context needs to be provided for the insertion. In the absence of any explanation from you, it appears that all you are doing is saying: "Hey, everybody, these are my favorite Bulleh Shah verses!" Apart from everything else, that qualifies as a POV edit. Finally, you inserted it into an inappropriate place in the article; it should be before "Further Reading", not after "See Also". --Sarabseth (talk) 12:33, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Sarabseth ,
Sarbat da bhalla.
Apologies for the misspelling .
You win

Since you seem to be a Bulle Shah aficionado
Please suggest a good translation of the English poem you deleted .(the one you call Hey, everybody, these are my favorite Bulleh Shah verses)

And Bulle Shah in Hindi , Gurmukhi scripts foreign language :) ?... would you prefer Shahmukhi ?
Sir would you permit ,a little content in (native !!) languages scripts with English transliteration or translation of Bulle Shah in this article ?
Respectfully
an e-murid
Intothefire (talk) 04:40, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

It's possible you're trying to be funny (though it's hard to tell). --Sarabseth (talk) 12:34, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

See my initial message , I requested your collaboration , your response was arrogant .

Your deletion was unexplained , sans discussion on the talk page .

Its not my intention to edit war specially on this page but I certainly believe judicious content(in all or any of the three scripts used for Punjabi) of some of Bulley Shah 's works properly explained would enhance this Punjabi sage's page .

Too often custodianship by one editor hinders a page's development ,

please reflect .

Intothefire (talk) 07:16, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

"See my initial message , I requested your collaboration , your response was arrogant ." You asked me the reason for the deletion; I explained my reasons. What part of that do you find arrogant?

"Your deletion was unexplained , sans discussion on the talk page ." Every deletion or reversion hardly needs to be explained on the Talk page. Besides, many people would consider an edit summary saying "deleted Gurmukhi insertion" pretty self-explanatory. The moment you asked me to explain the deletion, I did so.

If you find any of that objectionable or arrogant, I believe you are the one who needs to please reflect, not me. --Sarabseth (talk) 12:06, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

This discussion between user Sarabseth and me was a consequence of the following cited content I contributed to this page .

ਬੇਕੈਦ

ਸੈਂ ਬੇਕੈਦ ,ਸੈਂ ਬੇਕੈਦ ;

ਨਾ ਰੋਗੀ , ਨਾ ਵੈਦ |

ਨਾ ਮੈ ਮੋਮਨ , ਨਾ ਮੈ ਕਾਫਿਰ ,

ਨਾ ਸੈਧਦ ,ਨਾ ਸੌਦ |

मै बेकैद , मै बेकैद ,

ना रोगी ना वैद |

ना मै मोमन , ना मै काफर ,

ना सैयद ,ना सैद |

Ok so Sarabseth we wont put it on the article but can you provide a good English translation !

Intothefire (talk) 04:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Intothefire (talk) 15:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Newly created "Anti-Islamic Views" section

Deleted this today, for the following reasons:
a) Citing http://sufipoetry.wordpress.com/poets/bulleh-shah is invalid; this is just a blog post that is a snapshot of the Wikipedia article from a few years ago (which is duly acknowledged at the bottom of the post). More importantly, this cited reference contains no mention of anti-Islamic views.
b) In effect, then, the section is unsourced OR.
c) The argument offered in the section is essentially a misrepresentation of Bulleh Shah's poetry by cherry-picking isolated lines and taking them out of context. Bulleh Shah was not against Islam, he was against blind orthodoxy.
d) Please note that this section should not be resurrected without reliable sourcing --Sarabseth (talk) 10:28, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I already deleted this section once, earlier on yesterday, and politely warned the user about adding unsourced material. He then re-added it (in a pretty poor state) with some references and, not wanting to head off towards 3RR, I cleaned it up as best I could. Could you please raise this issue on the original poster's talk page and explain to him why this is being done. I'll do the same, and if nothing has changed by this time tomorrow then I'll come back and delete the section. If anyone objects, please pipe up! basalisk (talk) 11:01, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know if there's some confusion. I have already deleted the section, so there's no need to come back tomorrow and delete it. And I'm afraid I don't have the time to leave a note on his Talk page. (Besides, I'm not even sure that an anonymous editor with just an IP address as an identifier has a Talk page in any meaningful sense.) If he cares about whether his edits stand or not, he should be monitoring the article, and I have explained my deletion fully here. --Sarabseth (talk) 17:18, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Is there a problem? When I load the current version of the page the section you claim to have deleted is still there. Network issues perhaps...basalisk (talk) 19:39, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Aargh! I think I just fouled up; wrote the edit summary but forgot to actually delete the section. Thanks for following through and doing it. --Sarabseth (talk) 10:35, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Life Of Bulleh Shah

Bulleh Shah was Sufi poet. He wrote many books in punjabi. He spent his most of time in his house and worship Allah.

Umair 786 (talk) 14:42, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Religion of Bulleh Shah

Lately, I have noticed a user changing the religion of Islam --> to Humanism in the template. Please do not cherry-pick certain lines in his poetry and put them out of context and forget the main reason being for the poetry. Bulleh Shah was a SUFI SAINT and for those of you who didn't know please read more about them. He is known as an Auliya and some people turned him into non-muslim? Please do your research before you put text out of context. Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:F440:566:1D78:98B8:4219:2576 (talk) 12:43, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Greatest Atheist ever born in Punjab

Hazrat Baba Bulleh Shah ji is the only great personality that has shown courage to speak truth against fear driven Monotheism. People of Punjab need to accept the truth as Baba ji explains again and again and again. You people have divided Punjab, sold your generations to English-speaking countries (UK, Canada, Australia, USA) only to avoid accepting the truth that there exists no Allah. There is no God. It's is still not late, if there does exist Allah, he does not like Pakistan because otherwise, Pakistan would have not been in the situation it is today. Just accept it so we can start building a new Punjab, Baba Bulleh da Punjab.

1. Bulleh Shah did not believe in Allah or God:

Rab rab karde budhe ho gaye, Mulla Pandat saray, Rab da khooj khurra na Lubha, Sajde kar kar haare,

Source: https://www.urdusadpoetry.com/2012/06/rab-rab-karde-budhe-ho-gaye-bulleh-shah.html

2. Bulleh Shah did not believe in going to Hajj:

Makkay gayaan, gal mukdee naheen Pawain sow sow jummay parrh aaeey

Going to Makkah is not the ultimate Even if hundreds of prayers are offered

Source: https://sufipoetry.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/makkeh-gaya-bulleh-shah/

3. Bulleh Shah did not believe in mosque so his religion was not Islam: "Na main moman vich maseetan" [Nor am I the believer in mosque]

Source: https://allpoetry.com/Bulla-Ki-Jana-Main-Kaun

4. Baba Bulleh Shah did not believe in praying as he said in his kafi to burn the mat on which you pray (Phook Musalaa) . "Phook Musalaa bhann sut Lota, (Burn the mat over which you pray and break the mug with which you do wazu,) Na pharh tasabi kasa sota." (Do not hold rosary, bowl and stick).

Source: http://www.merinews.com/clogArticle/baba-bule-shah-the-rebel-sufi-mystic-poet/15895799

5. Bulleh Shah denounced religion in his famous kafi below. In the last line he is confused as to which religion to ban (kihdi kara pabandi) because there are so many of them (Wahabi, Dev-bandi (Hindu), Shia, Sunni) اِک پاسے میرے رہن وہابی اِک پاسے دیو بندی اَگے پِچھے شیعہ سنی ڈاڈھی فرقہ بندی وِچ وچالے ساڈا کوٹھا، قسمت ساڈی مندی اِک محلّہ، اَٹھ مسیتاں، کہدی کراں پابندی

ਇਕ ਪਾਸੇ ਮੇਰੇ ਰਹਿਣ ਵਹਾਬੀ, ਇਕ ਪਾਸੇ ਦੇਵ ਬੰਦੀ ਅੱਗੇ ਪਿੱਛੇ ਸ਼ੀਆ ਸੁੰਨੀ, ਡਾਢੀ ਫ਼ਿਰਕਾ ਬੰਦੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਿਚਾਲੇ ਸਾਡਾ ਕੋਠਾ, ਕਿਸਮਤ ਸਾਡੀ ਮੰਦੀ ਇਕ ਮਹੱਲਾ, ਅੱਠ ਮਸੀਤਾਂ, ਕਹਿਦੀ ਕਰਾਂ ਪਾਬੰਦੀ

Bulleh Shah always preached about humanity regardless of religion so Bulleh Shah does not belong to any religion.

6. Please watch the video below in which famous sufi singer Satinder Sartaaj is saying "There is no influence of mazhab (religion) in modern sufism" which he is referring to Bulleh Shah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkoDsdRXuEo

Article Talk pages are there for editors to collaborate on article content, not for musings about article subject. Read WP:TPG. And sign your posts. — kashmīrī ^TALK 13:11, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Furthermore, the assertions made above don't cite reliable sources. An author's own poetry is not necessarily indicative of that author's views. Blogs, Youtube videos, quotations from "famous" singers, or other non-scholarly sources, are not considered reliable. Not a single statement above supports the assertion that he is atheist. At best, he is not Muslim, but not being Muslim doesn't mean he's atheist. A spiritual quality in his writings do suggest some religious beliefs. ~Anachronist (talk) 17:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

please correct spelling

Bulleh Shah (or Bullhe Shah; Punjabi: بُلّھے شاہ ਬੁੱਲ੍ਹੇ ਸ਼ਾਹ As one can see from the original spelling -llhe is correct, -lleh is wrong (would be بُلّيه ਬੁੱਲੇਹ ) 2A02:8109:B6BF:80BC:EC2D:4A77:5671:B5E7 (talk) 17:16, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

All the available sources spell the name in English as Bulleh. — kashmīrī ^TALK 21:26, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

not true: https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=bullhe And even if 80% are wrong, that does not make it right. For me it is an good reason to write it the right way: the h stands for an aspiration not for a normal h