Talk:Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet (United Kingdom)

New Shadow Cabinet Line-up, May 10 2005

Here is the latest info - can someone please Wikify it?

Conservative Party Leader, Michael Howard has today announced his new Shadow Cabinet. It is as follows: HER MAJESTY’S OFFICIAL OPPOSITION SHADOW CABINET Leader of the Opposition Rt. Hon. Michael Howard QC MP Deputy Leader and Shadow Secretary of State for Defence Rt. Hon. Michael Ancram MP Shadow Secretary of State for Education & Skills David Cameron MP Shadow Home Secretary Rt. Hon. David Davis MP Shadow Secretary of State for Transport Alan Duncan MP Shadow Foreign Secretary Dr. Liam Fox MP Shadow Leader of the House of Commons Chris Grayling MP Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury Philip Hammond MP Shadow Secretary of State for Constitutional Affairs Oliver Heald MP Shadow Secretary of State for Health Andrew Lansley MP Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs Rt. Hon. Oliver Letwin MP Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland David Lidington MP Chief Whip Rt. Hon David Maclean MP Chairman of the Conservative Party Rt. Hon. Francis Maude MP Shadow Secretary of State for the Family and for Culture, Media & Sport Rt. Hon. Theresa May MP Shadow Secretary of State for International Development Andrew Mitchell MP Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne MP Shadow Secretary of State for Deregulation Rt. Hon. John Redwood MP Shadow Secretary of State for Work & Pensions Rt. Hon. Malcolm Rifkind MP Shadow Secretary of State for Local & Devolved Government Affairs Caroline Spelman MP Leader of Opposition in the House of Lords Rt. Hon. Lord Strathclyde Shadow Secretary of State for Productivity, Energy & Industry David Willetts MP

Gabriel Rozenberg 16:09, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Revert

An edit of this page by me was reverted recently. I wonder if somebody could tell me why. Needless to say, I only made the edit because I thought that it was an improvement. I can imagine that I made a mistake, but I haven't spotted it yet. Tim Ivorson 13:19, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Michael Ancram

Why is Michael Ancram not called Michael Ancram here? He is widely known as Michael Ancram and the Wikipedia article about him has that name. Tim Ivorson 14:31, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Fair enough, but we should at least note that he possesses the title, even if he doesn't use it and is not, technically, a peer due to the Lords Act '99. Wally 18:13, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Of course he's a peer. Proteus (Talk) 18:42, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Baroness Morris of Bolton

The Vice-Chairman (Candidates) is listed as Baroness Morris of Bolton OBE. I cannot find any record of such a baroness (or indeed a baron). Mtiedemann 00:35, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[1] -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:37, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Patricia Morris, OBE, was created Baroness Morris of Bolton, of Bolton in the County of Greater Manchester, on the afternoon of 9 June 2004. Proteus (Talk) 16:23, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Include Shadow Olympics Minister?

Include? Shadow Olympics minister: Hugh Robertson http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6453575.stm Kahar5 17:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

New cabinet post of 'Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change'

When will David Cameron be expected to fill the post of Shadow Energy and Climate Change Secretary seeing as Brown has now created one? --PoliceChief (talk) 19:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

The Shadow Cabinet does not always mirror the Cabinet exactly, as can be seen in 2003 with Tim Yeo covering Health and Education to shadow John Reid (Health) and Charles Clarke (Education). Theoretically the Shadow Cabinet does not need a reshuffle, but political commentators have speculated that one is likely in the next few weeks. Road Wizard (talk) 19:53, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Not *the* Shadow Cabinet

Not sure it's really appropriate to say the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet is the Shadow Cabinet, as there is also the LibDem Shadow Cabinet (see http://www.parliament.uk/mpslordsandoffices/government_and_opposition/libdems.cfm). Also see talk page at Talk:Liberal_Democrat_Frontbench_Team#Lib_Dem_Shadow_Cabinet --Alexd (talk) 08:59, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Whatever the recent wishes of the Liberal Democrats, whenever anyone else says "the Shadow Cabinet" they always mean the Official Opposition Shadow Cabinet who have the Shadow Cabinet room at Westminster. The parliamentary website just uses the nomenclature supplied by the parties and isn't ruling on this stuff. Timrollpickering (talk) 21:22, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

David Willetts

The UK Parliament site [2] has him down as a "Shadow Secretary of State for Universities and Skills" while the tory party site lists him as a minister with a somewhat longer and less official-sounding job title "Minister for Universities and Skills, with special responsibility for family policy". The official UK Parliament site should be the more reliable source. Khcf6971 (talk) 15:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Why would that be? The Parliament site gets their information from the Tories. The Tory site is the Tories. -Rrius (talk) 15:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

The Parliament site indicates that Shadow Minister is the lesser title. Willetts is the Shadow SoS served by 5 Shadow Ministers. The SSoS title is also used by Willets himself, the BBC and... The Conservative Party.

There is no real confusion here as you often see the same practice in Goverment as well. Willets is a Shadow Minister with the specific title of Shadow Secretary of State; Lord Adonis is a Transport Minister with the specific title of Secretary of State for Transport. Road Wizard (talk) 19:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, there is confusion. Willetts is listed at the party's Shadow Cabinet list as "Shadow Minister for Universities and Skills, with special responsibility for family policy" just after Baroness Warsi (Shadow Minister for Community Cohesion and Social Action). Aside from Grant Shapps (Housing), the other substantive policy portfolio holders are all called "Shadow Secretary of State". Since, in the one place where the Conservative Party has sat down and made nice distinctions about what he is called, they have called him "Shadow Minister", we should too. -Rrius (talk) 19:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

If you notice they call him both. Check the last link I posted. ^_~ Road Wizard (talk) 19:23, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I saw that, hence "in the one place where the Conservative Party has sat down and made nice distinctions about what he is called". The press release you mentioned probably just carries forward his title from when he was shadow secretary of state for that department. There is no such department now, though, so he can't be shadowing its secretary of state. -Rrius (talk) 19:26, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

It is used by David Willets on 2 November 2009, which shoots a fair sized hole in the recent change theory (maybe they should let him know too? ^_^). The title never mirrored the Government position precisely either as that was Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills. Even if you can argue it was intended as a close match the change in department name occurred in June 2009 where other sources continue with the SSoS title after that date:

The Telegraph (Sep 09), Reuters (Aug 09), Conservative Party (Sep 09), The Independent (Oct 2009).

See also The Shadow Teams, which is another place where "the Conservative Party has sat down and made nice distinctions about what he is called". Road Wizard (talk) 19:40, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Or maybe he's an arrogant politician. It doesn't blow a hole in the "theory" as the the change at the Conservative site is only a post-June 5 move. The last link you provided is more persuasive (in that it actually has some persuasive force). Logic still dictates my way and there is no reason to believe that page isn't the same as it was on June 4, 2009, but I don't care enough to stop you. -Rrius (talk) 19:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually logic doesn't support you at all, as all but one source disagrees with you and the one in your favour can't make up its mind. As you have no objections I will revert back to the official title. We can always change back to "Minister" if the Parliament website changes. Road Wizard (talk) 20:04, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you forgot or are being deliberately dishonest, but the argument from logic is that there is no Secretary of State for Universities and Skills for Willetts to shadow. -Rrius (talk) 20:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the accusation of dishonesty. It is refreshing to find an editor who reverts to name calling instead of trying to argue a point with reference to source material. Road Wizard (talk) 20:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome, but you may want to take note of the very first words of that sentence. Ironically, the choice between poor memory and dishonesty is equally applicable to your complaint. -Rrius (talk) 20:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

This is going nowhere. You are making indirect insinuations about my honesty when I am following Wikipedia's Verifiability policy. You wanted to make a change and provided a source; I provided several sources that disagree and showed that the source you rely on even contradicts itself. You can carry on making insinuations if you like, but it may be far more productive to take a short break to consider the situation calmly and make a new argument if you feel it necessary.

I will refrain from posting on this talk page for at least 24 hours to allow this debate to cool off. Regards. Road Wizard (talk) 20:36, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Officeholders Table

The page might benefit from a table like this one, which shows the holders of the major shadow posts since WWII. BartBassist (talk) 13:17, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

premature list removed

I see no source suggesting that the Labour Party currently has formed a shadow cabinet. Without that, simply listing the Brown cabinet as the "shadow cabinet" is dubious speculation. Feel free to replace the list if you can show a source.--Scott Mac 21:21, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Labour MPs elect the shadow cabinet. So it wont be for a few days before it is announced, and the former miisters are offically in it, untill and if they are elected into it by the PLP.--Welshsocialist (talk) 01:11, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? From what you are saying, a former Minister who lost their seat at the last election would also be in the Shadow Cabinet at this time. Road Wizard (talk) 01:25, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I meant that, at the moment, there is no offical shadow cabinet, until the PLP elects one, and we don't know until that time if former ministers will be in it or not. I worded it badly. Sorry.--Welshsocialist (talk) 14:59, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Miliband Shadow Cabinet

With the election of a new leader, are the old Shadow Cabinet members still members? Or should we cut the list down to the six ex officio members until the Shadow Cabinet election is over? (I don't think peers have elected their backbench representative, the seventh ex officio, yet.) -Rrius (talk) 05:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No Shadow Cabinet currently, following the dissolving of conference. Winteron, Harman and Miliband are the only official office holders. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.4.89.176 (talk) 15:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

no references

please add references.Phd8511 (talk) 14:36, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Shadow Ministers before reshuffle

Shadow Ministers keep their positions within the Shadow Cabinet before a resuffle. Thus, putting "TBA" is not accurate unless they have resigned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PepperMintTea1967 (talk • contribs) 15:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

"most senior Opposition Members"

[ Not all Opposition frontbenchers are members of the Shadow Cabinet, which is composed of the most senior Opposition Members (usually around 20). ]

Think this could be removed now, since it no longer has any relevance, also it is quite outdated — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.46.83 (talk) 10:00, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Am a bit confused

What has happened to the "Shadow Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government" and "Shadow Secretary of State for Defence"?

From my tweeting last night (13-14 hours ago) I thought Diane Abbott MP was Communities and Local Government and Gloria de Piero MP was Defence?

But now Diane Abbott MP is International Development and Gloria de Piero MP has vanished 92.18.46.83 (talk) 10:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

History

When were shadow cabinets invented? When did Oppositions first start to have shadow cabinets? According to Hollis's "Jennie Lee", note 76 at the end of Chapter 6, Labour's shadow cabinet dates back to 1955. Before then, the Opposition front bench didn't hold individual policy briefs. -86.188.109.221 (talk) 21:05, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree that this article is woefully incomplete, first of all without historical information on the reason for having a shadow cabinet and now without a history on why there are all those TBDs. The article has been marked "lacking sources"; BBC press ought to be a rich mine for information on why the shadow cabinet is resigning one after another. 100.15.120.122 (talk) 15:37, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2016

Michael Dugher is no longer in office and the office is currently vacant. 109.149.189.133 (talk) 17:22, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. - a boat that can float! (watch me float) 06:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Defence / Foreign / Emily Thornberry

Two Shadow Secretary of States for Defence? (Emily Thornberry & Clive Lewis)

Shadow Foreign Secretary (Emily Thornberry MP)

these sections need double checking Wiki editors — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.83.255 (talk) 16:02, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Split table?

Is there any chance that we could split the table for pre- and post-Brexit? It is genuinely difficult to get the information I was hoping to get from the current table. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 00:16, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

I know this is probably one reshuffle too late but hopefully the changes just made are along the lines of what you were thinking Seeinggreen (talk) 21:29, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 25 July 2019

Shami Chakrabarti is a peer and should be mentioned as "The Rt Hon The Baronness Chakrabarti CBE PC".

Keir Starmer has been knighted and (even with the post-nominal of KCB) should be mentioned as "The Rt Hon Sir Keir Starmer KCB QC MP".

Angela Evans Smith is a privy counsellor and should be mentioned as "The Rt Hon The Baronness Smith of Basildon PC".

Thomas McAvoy is a privy counsellor and should be mentioned as "The Rt Hon The Lord McAvoy PC". 70.29.38.15 (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

 Not done per MOS:HONORIFICS and a lack of sources. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 03:39, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2020

Keir Starmer MP is now the Leader of the Official Opposition (04/03/2020) and thus isn't Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, the position of which has now been abolished. There is now a Deputy Leader which is Angela Rayner MP, who thus can't be and isn't Shadow Secretary of State for Education (04/03/2020).

https://labour.org.uk/people/leadership-elections-hub-2020/leadership-elections-2020-results/

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Eashwelllewis (talk • contribs) 18:23, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ​I can't comprehend your request, so, please, clarify or make your request per the above message. {{replyto}} Can I Log In's (talk) page 21:09, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Adding Shadowing parameter for shadow ministers

I'm interesting in hearing what people's thoughts are on adding a parameter in shadow ministers' infoboxes for who they're shadowing. This would have to be a custom parameter using | 1blankname = Shadowing as there is no current specific parameter for this, although I have requested it. I don't believe this goes against what constitutes a good infobox, and if anything supports it. DanJWilde (talk) 20:31, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Deputy Leader of the Opposition

Angela Rayner has been listed as "Deputy Leader of the Opposition" however no such role exists. This role should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.47.209.12 (talk) 18:05, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. You sure about that? [3]. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 01:42, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Ordering of the list

Hi, I was just wondering if someone could explain the present ordering of the list, for example if it is based on importance then why shadow education sec is rated above shadow foreign sec etc. Firestar47 (talk) 21:54, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this, it feels wrong to group it currently, where as the cabinet page groups the four great offices together, perhaps change it in line with the cabinet one? 172.76.5.27 (talk) 03:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

I'll have a go at changing it. Firestar47 (talk) 21:29, 2 June 2024 (UTC)