Talk:Porsche 911/Archive 1

Archive 1

998

This section is almost entirely hearsay, and lacks any citation.

Furthermore, some of it is downright silly…

For example “There is also the possibility it might have dual rear-mounted radiators (like Lamborghinis and Ferrari Testarossa) for better weight distribution and to make more efficient use of the rear-mounted longitudinally-aligned flat-6 configuration”

Why would a car with a rear mounted engine want its radiators anywhere but in the front, with them there already the 911 still has a weight distribution of 40:60 Front to Rear.

This section needs to be identified as complete rumor, or deleted entirely, frankly I’m in favor of the latter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.179.113.34 (talk) 15:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree. The whole section should be deleted.Hondasare^{GOOD (talk)} 14:57, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Errors reintroduced

Fuzzyworcester, I see that you have reintroduced errors that I had corrected. The terminology 'MkI' and 'MkII' is wrong, and the 964 Turbo was never offered in four-wheel-drive forms. Can you explain why you have done this? Thanks. Philsy 16:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a very poor entry and you are right to correct errors such as these - shame they have been put back. However, what is needed is a full overhaul. I see that some models - 930, 964, 993 and 996 - have their own pages, so why not link to those rather than repeating information on this page? 212.84.121.57 15:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Fuzzyworcester, I must agree with Philsy and ask you to show that the terms Mk 1 and Mk 2 are in wide use for discussing the 911. It really is not good practice to use new terms in Wikipedia if they are not widely used outside of Wikipedia. User 212.84.121.57, it is very common for pages that are about a big subject to include short summaries about their component topics. Look at the country pages such as Germany, which have short sections on history, geography, demographics, etc. each headed by "Main article: xxx" links. It helps to make such pages coherent articles in themselves. I admit it's a shame if the "higher" page in the hierarchy has more information on a subtopic than the page it points to, e.g. if the Porsche 934 page has less info on that model than appears on the 911 page. The remedy is not to remove the text from the superior page, but rather to copy all the relevent info from the 911 page to the 934 page, and to hope it develops there. Regarding the 930, it was only known as 930 in certain markets so it is not appropriate for all Porsche 911 Turbo information to migrate there. Likewise, only a few car geeks know that the current 911 has type number 997; most people need to find basic information here. The detailed model info that someone is putting here can certainly move to 996 and 997. -- Hotlorp 04:53, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone clarify the MkI/MkII distinction? I realize it refers to the transition between water-cooled and air-cooled 911s but I've never seen it used before.

Needs work

This article needs a lot of work. Much of the info is sketchy and incomplete. I've corrected some glaring inaccuracies, but haven't had time to do as much as is required. For instance, I've taken out references to 'MkI' and 'MkII' 911s in regard to air-cooled and water-cooled cars - such terminology is never used in this way.

Note tht the 997 Turbo and GT3 are now launched and need to be included. I'll try to make time to do this. done ! Sundeep pn 01:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Standard infobox

I think there needs to be a "standard" infobox for the Porsche car model pages. Please see the work I have done so far: Porsche Carrera GT, Porsche Cayenne, Porsche Cayman, Porsche Boxster, Porsche 997, Porsche 996, Porsche 964, Porsche 930, Porsche 928, Porsche 968, Porsche 944, Porsche 924, Porsche 912, Porsche 959, Porsche 914. They emulate the very uniform infoboxes in the Ferrari pages, e.g. Ferrari Enzo, Ferrari F50, Ferrari F40. Now look at Porsche 993. There seems to be some resistence against unifying Porsche 993 infobox with the others. Please see Talk:Porsche_993 for some more nitpicks. K3rb 01:52, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

GT1

I see Porsche 911 GT1 currently redirects to this page. This needs to be changed as the GT1 was a 911 in name only, and is a completely different model.

I've revitalized the Porsche 911 GT1 page. K3rb 14:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

The GT1 Needs pics!-Ez5698

Is the whole range the "Carrera" or the "911"?

I was surprised to read that the proper name for this car is Carrera, and that 911 is simply the internal code name for the car. This seems to contradict the books Porsche: The Legend by Jonathan Wood and Porsche 911 Story by Paul Frere. They both suggest that the Carrera name was only applied to 911 models such as the 2.7 RS and the naturally aspirated models from the 3.2 onwards, and that 911 is the proper name. That had always been my understanding. I'm interested to see a source that confirms what is written in this article. SamH 09:55, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

User:Flash-Gordon: I have three main hard sources here, I too have the "Porsche: The Legend" book as well as one titled "Porsche Legends" and a third, "Porsche" The essence of Performance" as well as several other hard texts that refer to the Carrera. The original car was Type 911 (built through 1988), which was subsequently replaced by the Type 964, etc... Porsche never attached the 911 moniker for the car in marketing, it was only originally used internally but the term caught on. You'll see the name "Carrera" still scripted on every unit they sell (except Targas and Turbos), unless the owner specifies they want the car debaged. Anything built after 1988 is technically not a 911, but a Carrera. However even Porsche will occasionally refer to the car as the 911 on occasion. This is similar to the current (but soon to be replaced) Boxster. Internally the car is called Type 986, and in on occasion refered to as such by enthusiasts/owners. However the proper name for the car is Boxster, and the 986 designation is no longer good for the new version coming out. Porsche, on occasion, will sell cars with no "proper" name though. Such as the 924, 944, 928, 914 and 912, which were sold under their Type number, rather than getting a real name like Carrera or Boxster.

I agree that Porsche's internal name for the car was "Type 911", until the 964 generation of 1989. However, I disagree with your assertion that the car was always sold under the name "Carrera" rather than "911". There seems to be lots of evidence that it was sold as the "911" including:

• The fact that Porsche's advertising of the time (see Porsche Cars Great Britain's Forty Fast Years webpages) refers to the car as the 911;
• The fact that this contempary road test refers to it as the 911;
• The fact that probably every magazine or website article refers to it as the 911 (just two examples [1] [2]);
• The fact that reference books refer to it as the 911.

Furthermore there seems to be no evidence that the name "Carrera" was applied to the range as a whole, only that it was applied to particular variants, and then only after 1973. Therefore, I respectfully assert that you are mistaken in referring to this car as the Carrera rather than the 911. SamH 16:18, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My understanding is that Porsche uses the "Carrera" name on any high-performance model. I know there were "Carrera" 924s, and there's always the Carrera GT. Porsche uses the "911" name on their web site. The model is called the 911, named after the internal code of the first version. It is still called the "911" even though the internal name has changed. --SFoskett 16:25, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)

User:Flash-Gordon: Porsche began attaching the 911 moniker publically after the name caught on for public use. The offical marketing name for the model had always been Carrera, just as the 986's marketing name is Boxster, not 986. When the Boxster's replacement goes on sale next year, the 986 moniker will dissappear, as the car will no longer be a "Type 986". Magazine writers and others generally refer to the car as 911 because that is the common, popular name, and Porsche has never tried to discourage it's use. The name Carrera applies to all variants, including the 930 which Porsche originally advertised and sold as the "Carrera Turbo", some early 930s even had "Carrera Turbo" scripted on the back. They did not use "911 Turbo" to refer to that model until after it had become a popular term for the car, and later models were scripted only with "Turbo", there was never any 911 badging attached. In reference to the other poster, Porsche has used the name "Carrera" in some form on other models, inclding (as you pointed out) the 924 Carrera and the new Carrera GT supercar. Notice though that none of them are simply "Carrera" which is the name for the "911". I understand the confusion, but this is the case. You should re-consult the texts you have avaliable to you, as well as others via book stores and/or libraries, also check the internet, and I'd suggest a visit to the Porsche USENET group as well as the board on rennlist.com, where this information can be verified.

Hotlorp: The above is rubbish. Perhaps you took some temporary method of Porsche marketing as indicative of their methods since 1963. Even the current Porsche Germany and USA websites lists the model range as 911, Boxster, Cayenne, Carrera GT. The 911 range is: 911 Carrera, 911 Carrera S, 911 Carrera Cabriolet, 911 Targa, 911 Carrera 4S, 911 Carrera 4S Cabriolet, 911 Turbo, 911 Turbo Cabriolet, 911 Turbo S, 911 Turbo S Cabriolet, 911 GT3, 911 GT2. Several models currently not called Carrera. All called 911. My collection of old Porsche brochures - which have "911" all over - also confirms what the dissenters to your opinions have to say. In the early 1980s, for example, there was the 911 SC (the basic 2687cc model) and the 911 Carrera (the faster 2992cc model) and the 911 Turbo, 2992cc like the Carrera. The SC had "911 SC" on the tail, the Carrera had just "Carrera". The fact that the Turbo was originally called the Carrera Turbo doesn't prove your case: it would have been, in full, the 911 Carrera Turbo, and given the name Carrera since it had features, including engine components and capacity, in common with the faster non-Turbo version of the 911. -- Hotlorp 02:17, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

User:Flash-Gordon: It's not rubbish and the information is obviously verifiable. Only cars produced before 1989 were truly "911s" as far as the name is concerned. Porsche has choosen to continue to use the "911" moniker because it is the popular, accepted name for the car and is much more recognizable to casual enthusiasts than the Carrera nameplate. The fact that the "911 SC" was badged as such holds little water to your point because this was well after the point at which "911" had become the popular name for the car. The newest variant is not a 911, it's a 997. Porsche plants the 911 name on for marketing; if that, in your minds, qualifies "911" as the car's proper name than fine. If that were truly the case though, why was the 1997-2004 Boxster not badged "986 Boxster"?

Hotlorp: You're being inconsistent and your claims are certainly not "obviously verifiable". Please give book references and page numbers or specific URLs. I followed your link to the rennlist.com site: its FAQ only introduces "Carrera" where I'd expect, as a faster version of the 911. You say "only cars produced before 1989 were truly '911s'", yet this Wikipedia page is (and always has been) largely about those cars and its direct successors. While it is plausible that Porsche for a time attempted to use the name Carrera to apply to the 964 or 993 ranges in some contexts, if that is the case, then the public's continuning to call the cars 911s nullified that effort and it's now quite correct to call all the cars 911 back to 1963. Your central claim, that 'Porsche launched the car in 1963 under the name 'Carrera'" (now deleted from the main article), remains completely unsupported. You seem unable to accept that car names might be "messy" in any way, that two numbers might both be used for the same car in different contexts. In any case, even if Carrera were the "proper name" (whatever the definition of that is for manufactured consumer goods), at Wikipedia it's almost always better to use common names for things rather than the "official" names. (There are exceptions, of course, in cases where the official name is helpfully more precise. For example, there are pages for the 964, 993 and 996 for people that want to expand on those particular models.) I hope we now can put this behind us and get back to writing useful content! -- Hotlorp 00:03, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

User:Flash-Gordon: Even if you insist on this point, I'm not sure why you've deleted the FACT that the car was introduced in 1963 as the Carrera. This should not be deleted, although it may be modified to read that Porsche introduced the car as the "911 Carrera" if you so wish, although I will continue to inforce my claim.

Hotlorp: If only you'd provide evidence to support your "fact" (book references with page numbers or specific URLs)... Even if some spec sheet somewhere contains the word Carrera for the 1963 901 show car or the first 1964 911 production cars, you'll need to show that it was intended to apply to the whole range rather than just one of its models. Please also explain why all books, magazines and websites refer to the Carrera RS 2.7 of 1973 as the first 911 to use the Carrera name. -- Hotlorp 09:21, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hotlorp: Some stuff from the web, where I've looked in vain for anything supporting the stance of Flash-Gordon. Bruce Anderson, Chairman of Porsche Club America's National Technical Committee: "In 1984 Porsche again applied the Carrera name to one of their 911s" (from Tips on buying a used Porsche 911). The article confirms what everyone but Flash-Gordon has been saying. I would greatly appreciate F-G supplying support of his/her arguments (i.e. references in books, magazines, brochures, technical papers, or the web, even discussion forums) before reverting my edits. -- Hotlorp 14:30, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I haven't been rverting your edits. Of course you still want to deny the fact that car has ALWAYS been the Carrera and has, in many cases, been scripted as Carrera but not 911. Despite this fact, I have not re-written the article!

Hello just a short throw in:

The 911 was launched as type 901 at the Frankfurt Fair. Porsche then remamed the 901 to 911 for known reasons. Same happend with the 902/912. In 1963 the name Carrera was used for the 904. When the 906 arrived the 904 was named Carrera 4 while the 906 was named Carrera 6. The word Carrera was then used from Porsche for road legal Race Cars ( The 906 was the last road legal Porsche racecar the 907 on didn´t got a street homologation from Porsche). In 1972 Porsche reused the Carrera on the Porsche type 911SC ( 911 Super Carrera ). Those limitet production cars are mostly known as 911 RS yet RS/RSR had been own Subtypes within the 911 SC. When Porsche launched the 911 Turbo the first cars where based on 911 SC bodys and therefore Carrera Turbo. Those cars wher mostly used on racetracks. Later the Turbo became an normal Streetcar based on type 930 so there wasn´t a 911 Turbo. So to make an snapshot from the Year 1975 you will find:

911 Standard entry car 150 HP 911S 165 HP 911 Carrera 210 HP Turbo 260 HP

In 1977 the Carrera badge was used with the 2,7 210 HP MFI and also with the 3,0 200 HP CIS engine. Yet this is the time when Porsche shiftet the "Carrera" use to brand the top of the line 911 model.

Grüssle

The Carrera name was used to describe the lightweight high performance version of the 911 starting in 1973. Prior to this the lightweight version was simply called 911 R (1967)which used the 2L 901/22 engine. During the 1970's the Carrera name was used for street versions of the 911 with higher horspepower and performance than the 911 S. In 1978 the Carrera was replaced with the 911SC (not Super Carrera, just SC) which used the same engine as the 1977 Carrera but was re-tuned for more low-end torque but slightly lower horsepower. The Carrera badge returns to the 911 line in 1984 with the 911 Carrera (commonly called the 3.2 Carrera). While the 3.2 Carrera is 165 lbs heavier than the original 1973 street Carrera it is hardly a "basic 911". The basic 911 was discontinued in 1977. From 1984 point on mostbut not all normally aspirated 911 variants are called 911 Carreras of some sort (2, 4, S, 4S, etc). The Carrera name did not ever apply to the entire 911 product line since Turbos produced during the 1980's did not use the Carrera designation. (Source: Excellence was Expected, Karl Ludvigsen)Targa86 02:00, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

As far as I can tell Porsche swap between Carrera and 911 as marketing dictates. As best i can tell the 911 was origonaly a model number (like the 996) and the Carrera was a light weight version of whatever the number was at the time. It seems that for several years they have used 911 Carrera, but that may all change with the new C based naming system.

Non-relevant content

I have removed the following content because I don't think it is relevant to the 911:

"By the late 1970s, Porsche's entry level model, the 914, was dead, and an attempt to revive it's predecessor, the 912 had been a failure. Porsche felt they needed an entry level model, but lacked the neccesary capitol to develop one. Almost simultaneously, Audi, who had sub-contracted Porsche to develop a range topping sports coupe for them, dropped the Porsche designed model in favor of the fabled Quattro coupe. What had been the perfect top-of-the-line coupe for Audi proved to be the perfect entry level coupe for Porsche, and the 924 was born. Although Porsche choose to utilize the Audi sourced four cylinder the car had been designed for, it was truly a Porsche in most respects, and had the handling prowess to back up the Porsche badge and pricing. The 924 proved succesful for Porsche, and spawned a turbocharged upper-range varaint as well as a racing variant (the 924 Carrera GT) and was used as the basis for it's replacment, the 944."

However, I think it is good writing and could be incorportated into another article. SamH 12:38, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I included the information because I felt like it was an important side-note. The financial success Porsche had with the 924 and 944 allowed them to continue building the Carrera, otherwise it may have been chopped. However, I can see how the information can be deviating and will leave it out.

Your paragraph belongs on the main Porsche page, as being about the company rather than a specific model. Feel free to integrate it into my words on the same subject. Hotlorp 01:58, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Use of "PS"

The engine output figures are consistently reported in units of "PS". The first instance is a link to a page that does not contain any description of "PS" as a unit of engine output. I'm guessing that these figures are in horsepower, either gross or brake, in which case the text should reflect this. Or "PS" really is a unit of output, in which case the PS page needs to include it.

I think I'm responsible for most of that usage of PS. It seems to be common for discussion of German cars in English. I've now linked its first occurrence more directly to horsepower. PS is short for Pferdestärke, the German for horsepower. I think it's reasonable to use the term, when most technical data on the car specifies power in those units, which suffers neither from the imprecision of 'hp' and 'bhp', nor from the unfamiliarity to most car fans of the kW. -- Hotlorp 16:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Ah, now I understand. That seems reasonable to me as well. Would it be appropriate to include conversion figures, in addition to the link, at the first usage? Something like, "(1 PS = 0.986 HP = 735.5 W.")-- Davidsteele 17:17, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I think it's best to leave those conversions on the horsepower page. In truth, car outputs vary from car to car by more than the tiny difference between the PS and the hp, so converting the output would not normally be done when writing up the technical specs for a British or American publication. I'll add something to the article to clarify all this. -- Hotlorp 23:16, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Realy you "should" quote in kW, as the ISO standard as this is an encylopidia. PS will be rounded from the engineres reports, as will BHp and Hp.

Type 997 Updates

I've updated the type 997 model data to be current as of December 2005

There must be a reference to the brand-new 997 911 GT3 RS. If no one takes care of this, I will.--67.162.213.207 15:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Porsche 911 an insult to 9/11 victims in the United States

Selling the Porsche 911 in the United States after the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 is a controversial idea because the '911' name seems to celebrate the tragedy.

There is a debate going on regarding the Toyota Land Cruiser and other Toyota SUVs and trucks (built in Japan and maybe other parts of Asia as well) because some people see them as 'Al-Qaedamobiles' ( Those vehicles are used by the AL-Qaeda illegal terrorist army in the same way that the Jeep was used to fight the Nazis in World War 2 ). There is some speculation that these vehicles might be vandalised resulting in an increase in insurance rates for these vehicles.

THe Porsche 911 is not known to be part of the Al-Qaeda fleet but it's name '911' might be enough for the Porsche 911 to suffer what ever fate the Toyota SUVs and trucks (the ones that are built in Japan and possibly other parts of Asia that are used in the AL-Qaeda fleet) might suffer.

If you want to read more about the Toyota debate that might also affect the Porsche 911, then you can link to the 'Toyota Land Cruiser' discussion page here at:

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Toyota_Land_Cruiser ]

and then look for this post:

'about a proposed edit to this article regarding Toyota Land Cruiser as well as other Toyota SUV's and trucks'

Again, your proposed edit is based on original research and DOES NOT belong on Wikipedia. --ApolloBoy 04:53, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You have to know that the Porsche 911 has been on sale for more than 40 years. By your logic, the emergency hotline 911 should also be changed. I sincerely hope that you do not intend to carry out vandalism against such vehicles mentioned in your statements (which are personal opinion and do not belong on the Wikipedia).--Folksong 16:42, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

While this is original research, I think a section on contraversy or reduced sales would be interesting and relevant if good, reliable sources can be found. Stargate70 (talk) 03:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Covin 911 Turbo replica kit-car AfD

Covin 911 Turbo replica kit-car is up for deletion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Covin 911 Turbo replica kit-car. I'm suggesting that the contents of that page are merged into here. Does anyone want to comment over at the AfD? Mike Peel 20:18, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added a comment to the effect that it shouldn't be part of this page, but should nevertheless remain and be improved. Philsy 08:59, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Why No Le Mans/Sebring/Daytona section

There is a section of 911 Rally hsitory but not a section on the 911's history at Le Mans, Daytona and Sebring. This seems a bit odd since the Rally history of the 911 is relatively minor compared to its endurance road-racing history. Anyone have some good sources on the class winners for these races going back to 1964? Targa86 02:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC) Stickly it's Porsche as opposed to the 911 model that is associated with Le Mans etc victoriesSundeep pn 01:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

A 911 Turbo section should be introduced

happy to do this, as the Turbo has over 30 years of history and even as a current GT3 owner, I know the Turbo has a marketing and icon history... as everyone has heard of the 911 Turbo. I have a Porsche article on 30 years of the 911 Turbo, with an update on the new 997Sundeep pn 01:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding a global infobox

A global (at the very beginning of the article) infobox has been added to the article. Being global, all the data in the box should apply to all models of the 911. Some data, such as engine sizes, do not apply to all models and therefore, IMHO, should not be included in the global box. --Wiley 05:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC) Agreed - I've also corrected a couple of other things in this box, although I wonder how useful it really is Philsy 21:11, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

996 dates

The 996 was launched in 1997 for the 1998 model year, so why is it being changed to 1999? Here is part of a press release from Porsche itself:

The 996 – the most dramatic rejuvenation process in the history of the 911

Entering its 34th year, the Porsche 911 experienced its most dramatic rejuvenation process so far: The 1998 version of the 911 Carrera – the 996 presented in autumn 1997 – went far beyond all existing dimensions. Indeed, this also applied to the car's exterior and interior dimensions far larger than before. And it applied in particular to the car's technical features, the new model being the first 911 to feature a liquid-cooled six-cylinder. Engine capacity was 3.4 litres, maximum output 300 bhp at 6,800 rpm. And like every Porsche, the 996 model series features brakes of exactly the right size and a chassis and suspension offering supreme safety reserves. Focusing on the drivetrain, the customer was able to choose either a six-speed manual gearbox or five-speed Tiptronic S automatic also offering a manual gearshift function via paddles on the steering wheel. Then, entering the 2002 model year, the 996 was upgraded by a 3.6-litre power unit developing maximum output of 320 bhp, the looks of the car also being slightly modified. The 911 GT3 entered the family in 1999, the most conspicuous features of this new model versus the 911 Carrera being the new front end, discreet side-sills, the rear wing fitted in position, red brake callipers, as well as new 18-inch light-alloy wheels. The 3.6-litre 360 bhp six-cylinder power unit featured in the 911 GT3 was not carried over exclusively from the 911 Carrera, but rather also came in a direct line from the Le Mans-winning 911 GT1. Unlike the Carrera power unit, this engine features separate cylinder and crankcase housings as well as cylinder heads made of a high temperature-resistant light alloy. The titanium connecting rods were also carried over from the racing engine, maximum output of the GT3 being raised in spring 2003 to 381 bhp. The current version of the 911 Turbo had – and still has – the same basic engine, with maximum output in this case of 420 bhp. But the output and performance of the 911 can always be enhanced to an even higher standard, both then and today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philsy (talk • contribs) 09:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Just looked into this more. It seems that the USA didn't receive the 996 until late 1998 - is that the reason for the confusion? There is not doubt that the 996 appeared in September 1997 at the Frankfurt motorshow, and the first cars were delivered at the end of that year. Can we agree to correct the dates accordingly? Philsy (talk) 14:47, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the 996 was launched in 1997 for sale in 1998. The pages should be changed accordingly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.84.96.61 (talk) 17:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Updates: 911 Turbo, 911 SC, 911 3.2 Carrera, References

- 911 Turbo (Type 930) (1974–1989) – improved readability. The bulk of info is in the 930 page so this should just be summary facts & my edits further that. - 911 SC / L, M, A, B, C and D series (1978–1983) – comprehensive overall including addition of info on special models & sales figures where appropriate. Facts were attributed to their sources. Relavent quote from Schutz added & attributed. - 911 3.2 Carrera / E, F, G, H, I, J and K series (1984–1989) – comprehensive overhaul. Info on special models, pricing & sales figures added & attributions detailed where applicable. - References were augmented with pertinent texts. imcarthur (talk) 01:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Years in headings

After a recent change ("1995-1998" for 993), I found that the given years in the headings were a mix of calendar years and model years; I have since changed all years in the headings to calendar years. I think it should be self-evident that calendar years are preferable as a rule to artificial dates like model years, especially when introductory dates differed in different markets; or else you end up with a 993 date of "1995", which is a violation of facts in more than one way, since the 993 was originally introduced and entered production in autumn 1993. --328cia (talk) 18:39, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Separate original 911 article

Would it be unecessary to have a separate article for the original 911? All the other models have them, and I think it would help organize things better if all the information on the orignal 911 was in one distinct article. Monkey343 (talk) 18:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Porsche refer to all of the series - 911, 964, 993, 996 & now 997 as 911s. Those are internal number designations that are widely used but a modern first-time buyer is still buying a 911. It should stay as one article imho. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imcarthur (talk • contribs) 11:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I've moved this article to Porsche 911 series as it covers the whole series. Porsche 911 is a simple disamb. The original 911 is at Porsche 911 classic. -- Matthead  Discuß   13:33, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The article needs to be weeded out, as to many details are listed. In contrast, the significant racing results are still underrepresented. -- Matthead  Discuß   17:27, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Aside from one being a disambiguation page and the other being a page with "Main article" links in each section, how are "Porsche 911" and "Porsche 911 series" any different? I suggest moving Porsche 911 series to Porsche 911, and get rid of the disambiguation page, as this series page should have all those links as well. I'd also suggest renaming "Porsche 911 classic" to "Porsche 911 (1964-1989)" or "Porsche 911 (first generation)" or such. --Vossanova ^o< 19:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I support this merge. swaq 20:03, 22 July 2008 (UTC)